Why the Gerber-hate?

[Kit Carson]

Leatherbird,
To clear up something you said, the EVO came out early this year. My CRK&T M16 has been out since the late 90's.

Kit

 

[Doug C]

Kit,Thanks for clearing that up for me.I'm learning.

 

[R. Ellis]

The Mark II was based on a sketch sent to Gerber by Army Capt. Bud Holzman. Whether he was given credit or paid is unknown. It is a part of historical fact now tho.

 

[travis55]

Ive got one of the older bolt action parabellums , its a damn nice knife . But as already stated that was back when gerber was still decent .

 

[pmel018]

I think the short lived yari was probably the last decent knife Gerber/Fiskars made
Phil

 

[Pocketknife]

... I wouldn't even use a Gerber to scrap dog shit off my shoes.

I've owned 3 Gerbers that I liked.....2 quite old, and one not so old.

The first 2 were made in the early 1970's, when Gerber used high speed tool steel blades that were hard-chrome plated (which protected the tool steel from rust, except for the sharpened edge), and they had molded-on aluminum handles.
The tool steel contained over 6% vanadium, 5% molybdenum, 4% chromium, 2% vanadium, and nearly 1% carbon, and a hardness of Rockwell C60-62. (I copied these specs off my original brochure).

One of these was a hunting knife, that had a good, non-slip handle coating called "Armorhide". It was a very good knife. I lost it overboard in about 25 fathoms off the west coast of British Columbia, after it served me well all over the world. It looked a bit like this one:

The other 70's knife I still have, and it remains one of my favourite kitchen knives. Beautiful knife, good edge, nice grip. Similar features as my hunting knife, but in a typical 8" French chef format.

The third Gerber that I like (so far) I bought at a store about a year ago. It's this one, I think:

It's a tiny pocket knife, 2" blade, tang-stamped "Gerber USA Portland, OR." Seems pretty good so far, but according to that stamp, it's made by Gerber in the U.S., not at a Gerber-Fiskars factory in Taiwan or wherever they're made these days.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Most tacticals have design elements that identify them as tacticals. Most "new" knife design patents are re-patents on ones that ran out.

You can not just reapply for a new patent on a design that's patent has run out. The new patent must be on a design with notable differences from the old one. Many elements of the original design can still be there, but it can not be a direct copy.

 

[R. Ellis]

You can not just reapply for a new patent on a design that's patent has run out. The new patent must be on a design with notable differences from the old one. Many elements of the original design can still be there, but it can not be a direct copy.

That is good to hear that should at least have to change something. I lost a bunch of bookmarked stuff in a hard crash not long ago. I see now that once something becomes pulic domain it stays that way. I also see the examples I was thinking of were never patented in the first place.

 

[Paul Davidson]

The linerlock is a good example of a re-patented design that has been used for over a century.

I will try to dig up a pic of an older example of a knife with a hole in the blade used to open it, but here is one I am sure you will agree, while probably not patented, is well known as a trademark style of Bill Scagel.

Here is another. Italian mid 1800's.

When you look at as many antique knives as I do, tens of thousands, you soon come to realize that there is truly nothing new under the sun, including that quote. I have no knowlege of patent law nor intellectual property law. I just take the word of people who make a study of such things.

There are subtle differences in the things you are comparing. Subtle yet enough to make the unique. Linerlocks do not have back springs, with the blade usually being held closed by a ball bearing detente system. Older knives that use the leaf spring lock had back springs that kept the knife closed and acted as the blade stop also. That's enough of a difference for the US Patent Office.

The Spyderco opening whole is also different from what you have pictured. It was designed for one hand opening, and is positioned close to the pivot point. The Scagel pocket knife had nail knicks that were cut through the blade, but certainly weren't meant for opening the knife with one hand. The other knife could possibly be used for one handed deployment but looks more like it was meant to make it easier to grasp the blade with one hand while holding the handle with the other.

Most knew ideas build off ideas of the past, but that doesn't mean they are the same idea.

 

[stieg]

The patent office and its examiners cannot find examples of "prior art" but you have!

This is totally off topic, but the US PTO (Patent and Trademark Office) is notorious for doing almost no prior art research. For the most part the prior art research is provided by the filing company and the PTO is so slammed (and has messed up priorities) that they spend very little time checking the veracity of the statements in the patent filing.

This is a quote from Patent Hawk (a patent consultant):

Having a patent granted provides little assurance that the patent is valid. Patent examiners are time-pressured production line workers; quality control suffers sometimes. Patents are commonly invalidated during litigation. Patent Hawk has personally invalidated well over a dozen patents through prior art search.​

 

[Jeff Clark]

A couple of my all time favorite and all time coolest knives are Gerbers. I've got a Mark II and a Mark I dagger from back when they first came out. They were in a class by themselves for factory made American knives when they came out. They had excellent workmanship and ergonomics. The cast aluminum handles had a cats tongue surface from being misted with molten stainless steel droplets that I have never seen duplicated. The blades were really tough, L6 for both of them I believe.

The first things that reduced my liking for Gerber knives was actually their high quality. A friend got one of their 60+ RC tool steel folding knives back in the late 60's. It was amazingly hard to sharpen. From the list of ingredients it seemed like M2 or Vascowear. Even the two daggers that I had did not want to accept my usual razor edge.

In later years after they were bought by Fiskars they seemed to use a particularly annoying allow. It wasn't tremendously hard, but it just didn't want to take a fine edge. It reminded me of 425M or badly heat treated 440A. The fit, finish, and design was OK, but the blade material just didn't do it for me. There are so many nicer knives made in the USA, Japan, or even Taiwan that the Gerbers just don't have much draw. I also just haven't seen any designs that really seemed first rate. It's sad, because they were once the best.

 

[paulwesley]

i bought a gerber torch when i was on a tanto binge about a year ago and although it was pretty dull its tight,smooth,well built and im sure when i get it sharpened i'll be rather pleased with it 440a and all.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

The linerlock is a good example of a re-patented design that has been used for over a century.

Does someone own a patent on the liner lock? I didn't think it was ever patented.

 

[Doug C]

Wasn't Walker the father of the liner lock?

 

[rhino]

It is sad when the products of a company go downhill so far.

My old Gerber LST is the smoothest opening folder I've ever handled.

In the "old days," they even made some excellent knives overseas. I have a "Gerber International" large drop point lockback that was made in Taiwan. It was probably the best knife ever made there up to that time and my earliest knife with AUS8A steel. It's built and finished beautifully and hard to believe it came from Taiwan in the 1980s.

 

[brownshoe]

The only scagel pocket knife i've handled could be opened with the hole. Spyderco just patentented what has already been around. Spyderco could still have come up with the idea independently, just they weren't the first, but were the first to patent.

 

[bob bowie]

Does someone own a patent on the liner lock? I didn't think it was ever patented.

The old brass hump style was, and then it was licensed to Cattaraugus. The Walker version never was.

 

[ROBB]

Its a shame whats happened to Gerber.Before taken over by Fiskars they were one of the most respectable cutlery manufactures in the world.They had many innovations.Using M2 tool steel in the 1960's and the amorhide (cats tongue),One of the biggest changes they made that affected the whole industry was Blackie Collins introducing Zytel for handles.The LST and Bolt Lock folder started the whole lightweight revolution in folders.
Most people do'nt know Gerber was almost like the Case of the early 20th century,having ties to many of America's cutlery companies through marriage or Case employees opening their own factories.In a sense Gerber was like this but not as much influence.I think the 1st was the late great Al Mar.After doing all he could for Gerber he decided to open his own company.I may be wrong but I've heard one or more of Gerbers guys went to work with Kershaw.The 2 owners of CRKT left Gerber to start their own knife company.I think I've left out some others.This is some of the kind of talent Gerber had.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

GigOne's thread.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347507&highlight=Gerber+EVO

Kit and CRKT made a deal. Gerber didn't make a deal with Kit. They stole from him.

Also, they're making junk. There are still some good ones in there, but primarily they are selling junk. They're quickly becoming a clone of Frost Cutlery (the one owned by Smokey Mtn Knife Works). I had a Silver Knight that was just a beautiful little piece, until you used it. I also had a couple Paraframes that I didn't like, and an EZ Out Jr, that worked fine until the clip got bent and the action got really sloppy. I'm seeing a lot of Gerber on clearance at Walmarts, and nobodys touching them.

 

[stellite]

The Mark II was based on a sketch sent to Gerber by Army Capt. Bud Holzman. Whether he was given credit or paid is unknown. It is a part of historical fact now tho.

In fact, the retired US Army Capt. Bud Holzman was working at Gerber when he proposed the making of a new combat dagger. The design was then refined into the Mark II model. There is a lack of good reference material on both the business and product history of Gerber Legendary Blades. This has led to some historical misunderstandings. My knowledge of Bud Holzman comes from an interview with Pete Gerber.

Gerber is now the largest cutlery company in the USA. They have expanded into flashlights, hydration products, and are a big player in the military and police markets. It is unfair to compare the specialty cutlery company of the pre-Fiskars era with the modern, mass market, international corporation of today. If a company wants to sell at Wall-Mart thay have to make a product that will be priced to sell in that venue. The folks that will buy a $100- $300, nicely finished, high quality knife are a very small part of the cutlery market. For the price, I think that Gerber makes a nice product. They also still make high line models also; the Trident military knife is a good example. All of the major companies have cheapened their finishes and quality over the last 30 years. Compare older Case or Puma knives with their recent offerings. It is neither bad or good, just survival in the marketplace.

I have been a Gerber collector for close to 30 years. I love the old models; but I am realistic about the current market. If you demand "William Henry" quality, be prepared to pay for it!