Why the glove war?

Gloves and loose clothing in a machine shop is not a good practice.
When I grind I wrap the knuckles I usually grind to a bloody pulp with a protective finger tape I found in MSC supply. If I cut the tape I just add another layer. This works for me:thumbup:
 
I Once Heard Of A Guy That Had Five Penises, They Say His Pants Fit Like A Glove.
 
Thanks for all your input, now I am really confused. ;)

What I find most bizarre is the big gap between people who use gloves and say no biggie and the folks who don't and would rather sacrifice their first born.

Pad
 
Gloves vs. no-gloves is irrelevant.

The issue to keep in mind is KEEP YOUR GODDAM HANDS AND FINGERS OUT OF THE TOOL!

I've been playing with hot steel, cutting torches and whole rooms full of whirly blades-o'-death since I was ten. I still have all my factory-issue fingers and toes and eyeballs, I've never needed stitches, and at worst, I go through maybe three to five Band-Aids a year. (And even then, most of that is due to close work with an eXacto, rather than any power tool.)

I don't wear gloves at the mill or lathe, but that's more because there's no reason to, than out of any perceived threat of being "pulled in". Of course, I also don't jam my fingers into the cutting tool just to see what'd happen, either.

It's real simple. You don't grab the workpiece in the lathe chuck 'til the chuck has stopped. You don't "feel the surface finish" 'til the chuck has stopped. You don't loosen the mill vise and reach for the workpiece 'til the cutter has stopped. You don't stick your hands into the work envelope 'til the cutter has stopped.

Chips built up and you can't see your witness marks? That's what disposable acid brushes and regulated compressed air blowers are for.

Whether or not you're wearing gloves is completely irrelevant, as long as you don't go jamming your fingers into where they can get caught.

Belt-grinder wheels? I can see some issues there, but again, paying attention to your hand position will solve 99.7% of those issues before they have a chance to become issues. Again- keep your hand away from anywhere the machine might be able to grab you. Period, full stop, end of discussion.

If I'm grinding something small on a bench grinder- like a lathe tool- I probably won't wear gloves. It helps with control of the workpiece. On the other hand, if I'm grinding something large, like deburring the end of a bar I just ran through the end of a chopsaw, I'll wear gloves because the ends and cuts can be pointy and sharp. On the third hand, if I'm grinding a small TIG tungsten, I'll wear gloves since I probably just pulled it from the torch and it's still very hot.

You're not supposed to wear gloves when using a wire wheel on a bench grinder, but it's a good idea to wear 'em when using a wire wheel in an big angle grinder. Don't wear 'em at the drill press, but wear 'em when using a big hand drill. What's the difference?

Right, your hand position. In the handheld tools, it's assumed your hands are away from the tool's spinny part. So if you keep your damn hands away from the spinny part of the stationary tools too, it doesn't matter a half a hamsters' hindquarters whether or not you're wearing gloves.

Me? I wear out a dozen pairs of heavy canvas and leather gloves a year, and I can count dozens of times that wearing them has saved me from injury.

Doc.
 
I usually wear leather gloves for grinding, as I tend to get my blades pretty hot prior to heat treatment. It also helps to cut down on sanding off my knuckles and fingertips.

When I'm forging I like to wear a Kevlar glove on my tong hand, but not on my hammering hand.

When I'm using my mill/drill or buffer, I just wear Nitril gloves. The help keep your hands from getting dirty and actually fend off some of the curls of steel coming off the drill or mill. However, if you actually got one caught in the spinning drill bit or mill, the glove would just tear without sucking your hand in. It's a little added protection, without the downside of getting your hand pulled into a machine. (By the way, I originally picked up the tip on the forums, so I can't claim it as my own idea.)
 
i wear kevlar gloves when grinding on my disc sander since i'm using a 30 grit disc. every now and then i end up getting a finger too close and if it werent for the gloves i would loose some skin for sure. the same for my belt sander if i'm working on a blade that hasnt been heat treated yet and i keep my fingers away from where they shouldnt be at all times. i have a few gloves with holes wore in them that would have been lost skin.
 
I do wear a leather apron when in the shop most times. Keeps me a little cleaner, takes the sparks, and I've also had a blade dig it's point into an 800 grit belt while convex sharpening that slapped me pretty good on the leg as it was on its way to the floor. The leather took most of the bite.

--nathan
 
When I'm using my mill/drill or buffer, I just wear Nitril gloves. The help keep your hands from getting dirty and actually fend off some of the curls of steel coming off the drill or mill. However, if you actually got one caught in the spinning drill bit or mill, the glove would just tear without sucking your hand in.

-I simply must ask: As Nitrile gloves are essentially skin-tight, why on earth are your hands anywhere close enough to be risking being caught in a "spinning drill bit or mill"?

Are you somehow checking to see if the endmill still has a sharp edge but didn't want to bother shutting the machine off? Are you trying to wipe the swarf off the drill bit?

This is what gets me about the whole glove issue. On even a small desktop mill-drill, you have no reason whatsoever to have your hands within six inches of the cutter while it's turning. On a full-size Bridgeport or large mill-drill, it might be more like a foot or eighteen inches.

The absolute closest you should ever come to a spinning endmill would be the length of a disposable chip-brush to carefully sweep away some swarf.

Drill presses might be a bit different, in that it's very common to just slap the piece on the table and run the bit into a centerpunch mark.

It's stupid, but way too common. See those holes in the drill press table? Those are for bolts, clamps, stops and/or hold-downs. Smart people use those. Idiots try to hold a piece of 3" long bar stock while they run a dull 1/2" bit through it- usually too fast, almost never with any cutting oil, and almost always with too much pressure.

That all gets back to my first point: If you keep your friggin' hands away from the tool, you're far, far less likely to incur an injury, regardless of whether you're wearing gloves or not.

Doc.
 
Some of us wear gloves around rotating machinery because we have never listened to a man scream while having a finger ripped out by the root.

Others of us don't, because we have.....
 
Some of us wear gloves around rotating machinery because we have never listened to a man scream while having a finger ripped out by the root.

Others of us don't, because we have.....

-So the question must be asked: Did the machine in question reach out, with malice aforethought, seize the hapless individual and drag him in, or did some idiot jam his hand where it wasn't supposed to go?

That's the main thing that grabs my goat in discussions like this. The natural assumption that if that poor, innocent and otherwise very-safety-minded individual simply hadn't been wearing gloves, he'd have avoided injury and thwarted the clearly evil machine that can apparently reach across the room to grab hold of passersby.

When in fact what happened, in 99% of the cases, is the idiot got tired, got clumsy, got lulled into a false sense of security, or simply had never been properly trained, reached in to put his hand where he had no goddam business putting that hand, and because of that idiocy/stupidity or lapse in judgment, inflicted a grievous injury upon himself.

There's a huge difference between the two.

I know of people that were wearing gloves and got injured, and I know others that were barehanded and got injured anyway. I know plenty of others who were injured by the usual culprits- bandsaws, bench grinders, drill presses- and gloves or lack thereof wasn't an issue.

And it's because of those injuries to friends and family, that I tend to get so riled up in this kind of discussion. Arguers on one side say not to wear gloves, the other side says you can wear gloves, but both sides forget to tell people not to stick your damn hand where it ain't supposed to be in the first place.

Doc.
 
-So the question must be asked: Did the machine in question reach out, with malice aforethought, seize the hapless individual and drag him in, or did some idiot jam his hand where it wasn't supposed to go?
Nope, just a normal human, making a normal human mistake.
When in fact what happened, in 99% of the cases, is the idiot got tired, got clumsy, got lulled into a false sense of security, or simply had never been properly trained, reached in to put his hand where he had no goddam business putting that hand, and because of that idiocy/stupidity or lapse in judgment, inflicted a grievous injury upon himself.
Don't have to be an idiot to get tired, or have a bad day, or get distracted, or just be human and make an error.
Boy, do I look forward to the day when I cease to make mistakes.
But, until that day I must resign myself to the mortal world of stupid/idiots.

I know of people that were wearing gloves and got injured, and I know others that were barehanded and got injured anyway. I know plenty of others who were injured by the usual culprits- bandsaws, bench grinders, drill presses- and gloves or lack thereof wasn't an issue.
Very true.

Then there's that one time in 1000 that it is an issue. I prepare for that one.
Kinda like wearing a seatbelt even though I dont plan on crashing the car.
Or putting on my helmet, even though I don't intend to lay the bike down.

but both sides forget to tell people not to stick your damn hand where it ain't supposed to be in the first place.
Hey folks DON'T STICK YOUR HANDS WHERE THEY AIN'T SUPPOSED TO BE.

I refer back to my original statement.

Some of us wear gloves around rotating machinery because we have never listened to a man scream while having a finger ripped out by the root.

Others of us don't, because we have.....


We're all human. It can happen to anyone.

We also have free will, wear them and grind/drill/mill/work on the lathe, or don't.

There's enough information here for everyone to make their own, informed decision.
 
Don't have to be an idiot to get tired, or have a bad day, or get distracted, or just be human and make an error.

-In that case, gloves are irrelevant. If you get your hand close enough for the machine to grab your gloves, you're only within a quarter of an inch at best, of letting the machine grab ungloved flesh. For most gloves, it's typically less than an eighth-inch.

In that case, YOU made the mistake, glove or no glove.

Boy, do I look forward to the day when I cease to make mistakes.
But, until that day I must resign myself to the mortal world of stupid/idiots.

-Yessir. But don't hamper yourself by refusing to use valid safety equipment, just because some other guy got stupid or lazy and jammed his hand into running machinery.

Then there's that one time in 1000 that it is an issue. I prepare for that one.

-Yessir, again. You buy fire extinguishers in case you ever have a fire, homeowners' insurance in case you ever have a flood, and wear safety glasses in case that grinding wheel shatters and sprays shrapnel around the room.

Gloves are simply another kind of safety equipment. Rubber gloves protect you from oils and solvents, heavy leather gloves protect you from hot forge tongs or sharp steel edges, thin leather gloves protect you from the heat and UV of TIG welding.

But you don't wear the thin leather in the parts washer, you don't use the heavy leather when trying to sew Cordura, and you don't use the rubber gloves near the forge. It's a simple matter of application.

Again, just because some idiot jammed his hand into running machinery sometime in the past, is hardly a blanket condemnation of the proper use of gloves.

Hey folks DON'T STICK YOUR HANDS WHERE THEY AIN'T SUPPOSED TO BE.

-That's all that needs to be said. Gloves have their uses, and gloves have their places they ought not be worn. But they do not, in and of themselves, or even in close proximity to running machinery, cause accidents or injury.

Some of us wear gloves around rotating machinery because we have never listened to a man scream while having a finger ripped out by the root.

-Did you stop driving the first time you drove past a car accident out on the highway? Did you sell off your rifle the first time you heard about a guy shot while hunting? Did you stop producing knives the first time you heard about someone being stabbed? Did you stop travelling by airplane after watching 9/11 on TV?

I listened to a man scream after lopping the first knuckle off his left index finger in a table saw- I was in the room but didn't see it happen. I saw the bloodstains afterward, though. No gloves, by the way.

Back in high school, one of my classmates in woodshop gashed himself badly with the bandsaw. He kinda-screamed, panicked, hyperventilated, and fainted before the EMTs could arrive. He damaged a nerve and some tendons, but no major impairment.

No gloves there, either. Ditto the kid that lost control of a chisel in the wood lathe- it kicked back, snapped the steel blade out of the wooden handle, and hit a second student at a nearby workbench. Nasty cut, but didn't need stitches.

The list is legion. The guy that took about 1/8" off the end of his left thumb while cutting a 2X4 in a small radial arm saw. No gloves. The buddy that somehow managed to stick his hand into the wire wheel in the bench grinder. No gloves there, either, but that one took $20K in skin grafts before he could use his right hand again.

All of those were stupid mistakes. In almost all cases, gloves would not have helped, but weren't the cause, either.

There's enough information here for everyone to make their own, informed decision.

-Agreed. But demonizing gloves, or suggesting that machines can reach out and snag unwary passerby- apparently, especially if they're wearing gloves- isn't an informed argument.

They are useful pieces of safety equipment, that like everything else from safety glasses to hardhats, has their place, and their place they ought not be used.

Doc.
 
I've spent a fair amount of time in a machine shop, but not enough to ignore advice from people who do it for a living. I always enjoy reading about safety tips and how to avoid getting hurt.
Unless you grew up in a machine shop or have spent a lifetime in one, it's always better to have someone tell you how to avoid getter hurt, rather than learn by accident.
 
Not gonna get in a pissing contest with 'ya Doc...

Why is there no consensus on this?

Pad
Because we all have differing opinions...

I've spent a fair amount of time in a machine shop, but not enough to ignore advice from people who do it for a living. I always enjoy reading about safety tips and how to avoid getting hurt.
Unless you grew up in a machine shop or have spent a lifetime in one, it's always better to have someone tell you how to avoid getter hurt, rather than learn by accident.
I run a machine shop.
Gloves are not allowed in my shop NEAR rotating machinery.

I've known 5 different guys who can only count to 9.
Every one of them was wearing Leather gloves.

I admit, I'm an evil bastard.
I told one guy "I told you so" while his finger was still spinning around on the drill press, and he was 20' from it.
But you see, I had told him so, and told him so, and told him so....

If you get close enough for "it" to get your glove, you probably are also close enough for "it" to get bare flesh.
Turns out tanned leather is tougher than human flesh and likes to wrap around rotating things rather than rip, and tear like our flesh does.
I have my share of scars, I prefer scars to learning base 9 math.
 
I've spent a fair amount of time in a machine shop, but not enough to ignore advice from people who do it for a living. I always enjoy reading about safety tips and how to avoid getting hurt.

-Yep. And the easiest way to not get hurt, is to not stick your hand where it can get pinched, cut, grabbed, squashed, sliced, snagged or burned.

Always pull on the ratchet if you can, it'll cut down on skinned knuckles. Use a shielded cold chisel if you can, or hold the chisel with any one of the proper holders or just a pair of Vise-Grips. It'll cut down on hammer-bashed fingers. Don't use latex medical gloves or rubber dishwashing gloves when working with solvents. Use the blue nitrile gloves or green chemical-resist gloves. Your liver'll thank you. :D

And when using machine tools- or woodworking tools for that matter- keep your damn hands away from the cutter, and out of the damn work envelope until the cutter has come to a complete stop!

Unless you grew up in a machine shop or have spent a lifetime in one, it's always better to have someone tell you how to avoid getter hurt, rather than learn by accident.

-I somewhat disagree. While us experienced, learned folks do have (okay, usually :D ) a wealth of good info, there's more than a few that are just crotchety old farts (present company excluded :D ) that may have some old and outdated opinions.

I know a machinist approaching his seventies, who's been a machinist since enlisting at 18. He doesn't wear safety glasses. When he enlisted, such things weren't even available, and he sticks by that old habit even after years of more recent suggestions to do so. He also doesn't wear earplugs or muffs, and what really surprises me, doesn't seem to have suffered much hearing loss. (Some, but he's clearly not more than just slightly impaired.)

He's the same guy that tends to leave the T-wrench in the lathe chuck. Says he's never had an accident, has never forgotten to remove it before starting the lathe, and refuses to change his long-ingrained habit.

But since he's now just a private citizen working in his own little shop, he's welcome to run it any way he wants. In all other respects, the man is bloody brilliant, and can cut even horrible, difficult metals like Inconel and Stellite, to the half-thou and make it look as easy as clipping out a coupon.

Safety lies in paying attention to the machine, and more importantly, paying attention to where you and your hands are in relation to that machine. Don't just believe some old moke when he lays some bit of wisdom on you. Mike- actually Mikhail, I think, the gentleman above- says he doesn't need safety glasses and has suggested I'm being something of a nervous nellie when I'd bring my own over.

Doc.
 
Nope, easier to abolish gloves....

Again, you're demonizing the inanimate, like a politician blaming a stabbing on the knife.
There's a pretty large grain of truth in that.

But as I've said before, every man gets to make his own informed decision.

Just not in MY shop....

Same with glasses, put them on, or leave my shop.
I've seen hot chips bounce off of safety glasses, so I wear them, figuring that hot chip could have popped my eye.

I've seen what could have been a minor injury turn into a life altering loss of digits, so I chose to not wear gloves.

I force no man to work for, or with me.
So if they don't like my rules, the door swings both ways.
 
No gloves, no thumb protectors. Once wet, the thumb protectors turn into little pressure cookers, with your thumbs ending up "well done".
-
If you are worried about grinding your fingers, use a push stick.
If you can't take the heat, slow down, cool your work more often and soon you will have enough callous so that your fingertips only get "warm".
 
I've given a bunch of thought to this today.
You see, I work in a place with a very strong "Glove Culture".
The atmosphere in the base I am in is that if you are touching something without a "Handglove" on, you are doing something very dangerous.
It's taken to extremes around here.
Extremes.
One day, I may lose my job over it.

I've talked with working men, and safety men today, and here is what I seem to have learned from all of these discussions.

Gloves protect you from minor cuts, and abrasions and such.
This seems true enough, that I can accept it as fact.
I have cuts, scratches, and blisters on my hands that I would not have if I had worn gloves.

However, when reviewing catastrophic injuries that occur involving hands, and fingers, gloves are involved, and implicated more often than not.

So Pad,

Some, like myself and RJ it seems, are willing to accept the common cuts, abrasions and blisters as part of the deal, and do not want to risk losing a limb to avoid them.
 
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