Why V blades?

All my knives end up with a convex edge by default. By that I mean that when freehanding on a stone I can never really keep the exact same angle and once my blades are sharp I keep them that way with a loaded strop. I really only use a stone to reprofile a thick edge. It is easy to keep knives screaming sharp with a strop.
 
The answer to your final question of why v edges are still being produced is that convex edges/grinds do not universally out perform v edges in the aspects you list. Also, the manufacturing of convex grinds is a little trickier than v grinds, making them a bit slower to make and a little more expensive, all else being equal, which it rarely is.

If you're talking about the cutting edge, I haven't noticed any difference from one to the other in cutting ability or edge holding. I use them interchangeably on my knives, depending on my mood.

If you are talking about the primary blade grind, from spine to edge or so, then the convex knives I've used cut worse than the v ground knives I've used. However, there is a lot of variation between different makers v and convex grinds, so its difficult to tell if comparisons are isolating just the grind. IIRC, the BRKT knives aim for a final edge bevel of 13 degrees per side. This is quite thin compared to what most people are used to using. If you haven't tried, thin your Puma's to a similar bevel and they may cut just as good.

Also, sharpening v edges doesn't require a lot of experience, but it does require some instruction. I taught my brother to sharpen in less than an hour with benchstones, free hand, to an arm hair shaving edge. If you stumble through on your own, it can take a lot of practice to learn to sharpen. If you can get some good instruction, it shouldn't take any more effort than convexing.
 
I've seen those videos. That guy is using a belt sander and takes 10 minutes to sharpen it. Yet you claim to be able to convex an edge with SANDPAPER by HAND in two minutes? Anyway that's not relevant. I never said it was difficult to sharpen a convex blade. I said it takes MORE SKILL. I can get a 10 year old to hold a knife on a guided plate to sharpen a V-Edge. I would have a lot more trouble training him to convex the same edge.
 
I'd say that a true full convex blade is easier to touch up and maintain than a V edge, But the act of changing (reprofiling) a V edge to a convex one is a whole other story.

I too would love to see this technique for doing it in 2 minutes with 1500 grit sandpaper and mouse pad....

I'm no expert, but I've done it to about a dozen or so of my knives, and to do it propperly start to finish usually takes me hours. Partly because you have to be careful not to use a lot of pressure with the paper/mousepad technique, otherwise you run the risk of rounding off the edge.

-Though the type of steel you are dealing with can make a big difference, i.e. S30V vs 1095. The S30V will take a good deal longer to reprofile propperly.
 
BryFry said:
I'd say that a true full convex blade is easier to touch up and maintain than a V edge, But the act of changing (reprofiling) a V edge to a convex one is a whole other story.

I too would love to see this technique for doing it in 2 minutes with 1500 grit sandpaper and mouse pad....

I'm no expert, but I've done it to about a dozen or so of my knives, and to do it propperly start to finish usually takes me hours. Partly because you have to be careful not to use a lot of pressure with the paper/mousepad technique, otherwise you run the risk of rounding off the edge.

-Though the type of steel you are dealing with can make a big difference, i.e. S30V vs 1095. The S30V will take a good deal longer to reprofile propperly.
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I agree. We aren't talking about which is easier to touch up. We're talking about why factories don't produce all of their blades with convex edges.
 
puukkoman said:
Preferences, mostly.
And I love BRKT, but if I'm stuck out in the woods and need to use a rock to sharpen my knife, a V-grind is going to be way easier to maintain.
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What I have been doing for a long time with all my Brkt knives is carry a fine rod and I have used this with great success to touch up my convex knives. It gets it back to a great edge however does not change the geometry that much that once I get back home, when it does dull some just a few swipes on the sandpaper and it is back to zero convex. FWIW.:)
 
samhain73 said:
lets take my latest knife for example, the Benchmade Bone Collector. I just took it to the 1500 grit sandpaper, removed the shoulder and put a polished convex edge on it in 2 mins. Pretty easy.
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You are saying that you can re-profile a v-grind blade to convex with 1500 grit sandpaper in two minutes by hand.

Nonsense. Even more so if the knife in your example is the usual D2 steel.
 
ans7812 said:
What is the relevance of this post? The OP asked why all production knives don't come with convex edges. The answer is because straight V grinds or Chisel grounds are incredibly easier to mass produce. Take a flat piece of steel and put a flat edge on one side. Now take a piece of steel and put a convex edge on one side. Which one was faster? Which one was easier?
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My reply directly addresses the root problem in the OP's question.

The point is that if you are having trouble sharpening one grind style over another, that means you are using the wrong angle. There really isn't much more to it than that (I tried to be thorough last time, maybe the one sentence answer is better).
Again, grind type makes no difference in how easy something is to sharpen. Check the angle, check the thickness. That's all.
 
Joshua J. said:
Again, grind type makes no difference in how easy something is to sharpen. Check the angle, check the thickness. That's all.
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Sorry, but that's not true. Sharpening a full convex ground blade is almost intuitive and much more mistake tolerating. On the other hand, as somebody already said here, for sharpening a V edge you do need some instruction and training, otherwise it can get messy.
 
Joshua J. said:
My reply directly addresses the root problem in the OP's question.

The point is that if you are having trouble sharpening one grind style over another, that means you are using the wrong angle. There really isn't much more to it than that (I tried to be thorough last time, maybe the one sentence answer is better).
Again, grind type makes no difference in how easy something is to sharpen. Check the angle, check the thickness. That's all.
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You STILL have not addressed the OP's question. His question is "Why don't all companies convex all of their blades?" The only thing you've said so far (and incorrectly) is that grind types make no difference in how easy something is to sharpen. That does not address the OP's question and is wrong anyway. Is it easier to shave a blunt stick into a V or to convex the edge? If you don't see this by now you never will.

What people aren't seeing is that a company is trying to maximize their output in as little time and with as little money spent as possible. This is not an argument of "which is easier to SHARPEN", this is an economic argument of "which is easier and cheaper to MASS PRODUCE."
 
ans7812 said:
You STILL have not addressed the OP's question. His question is "Why don't all companies convex all of their blades?" The only thing you've said so far (and incorrectly) is that grind types make no difference in how easy something is to sharpen. That does not address the OP's question and is wrong anyway. Is it easier to shave a blunt stick into a V or to convex the edge? If you don't see this by now you never will.

What people aren't seeing is that a company is trying to maximize their output in as little time and with as little money spent as possible. This is not an argument of "which is easier to SHARPEN", this is an economic argument of "which is easier and cheaper to MASS PRODUCE."
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There is such a thing as a flawed question. The OP based his question on assumptions.

Nuno said:
Sorry, but that's not true. Sharpening a full convex ground blade is almost intuitive and much more mistake tolerating. On the other hand, as somebody already said here, for sharpening a V edge you do need some instruction and training, otherwise it can get messy.
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If you wish to keep it exactly as it came from the factory, yes. There isn't much point to doing that though, since most factory edges are lop-sided anyway.:(
 
The principles of sharpening apply equally to all edge grinds. Remove metal until the edge is as thin as it can be. There are too many different ways to do the basic edge grinds (flat, conves, hollow, saber) to say one always outperforms the others. For anyone to meaningfully answer your question, which is based on some assumptions that may or may not be true, you'll have to provide some measurements.

The thickness of the edge and the edge angle determine how much needs to be removed. I think you would find Alvin Johnson's knives to be just as intuitive as the BRKT knives, and they are hollow ground with a flat ground bevel.
 
Dang I haven't seen a thread with this much bickering back in forth for a while everybody breathe.
 
Nuno said:
If a full convex blade is so easy to sharpen, if its edge is more resistant, if it cuts better because its edge never becomes thicker and instead of getting buried it opens like a wedge, why the hell are V blades with V edges still being produced and people buying them?
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That's a lot of ifs, I'm not sure they're all true. Perhaps the reason flat grinds with flat bevels are so popular is because many people seem to like them more than convex bevels, at least for some applications.

By the way, my finest, sharpest knives have flat bevels.
 
Cisco Kid said:
That's a lot of ifs, I'm not sure they're all true. Perhaps the reason flat grinds with flat bevels are so popular is because many people seem to like them more than convex bevels, at least for some applications.

By the way, my finest, sharpest knives have flat bevels.
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I'm guessing there are a lot of people who have simply never had or used a fully convexed knife, and therefore do not know what they have been missing.:)

-But then I'm sure there are still some who would still preffer a V edge anyway.
 
It sounds like some people are making a lot of assumptions who have never seen the inside of a knife shop much less how the blades are ground.

With automated machinery any grind should be able to be made about the same. Except for maybe a hollow grind which both sides can be ground at the same time instead of alternating. And if done by hand convex sharpening is easier than a flat grind. You just hold a piece of steel up to a slack belt and in a minute you will have a convex edge. The same can not be said for a flat grind or hollow grind. Also a flat grind is done with a platen which does nothing with the angle. It sounds like someone doesn't know what a platen is. If a jig is being used to hold the angle it can be just as easily used on a grinder that has a platen or one without that produces a convex edge.

I think companies don't make a convex edge not because it is harder to produce (I think it would be easier, at least by hand it is) but because the average person doesn't like the way they look and does not know how to sharpen them.

I'm not a big fan of convexed edges. I have only used a convexed edge and not a fully convexed blade but I can get a traditional v ground edge sharper. Sometimes after a while a V grind will turn into a convex edge because of slight changes in the angle it is sharpened when done by hand. When this happens I put them on the Edge pro and get that nice crisp V grind edge back.
 
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