Why Water Stones?

Spideyjg said:
Any idea how those compare to the one Jon has at Japanese Knife Imports?
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No they are way beyond me. :)

But Shawn has a reputation for being top notch and exceedingly thorough. I'm pretty sure he has some posts here about them but you could ping him.

 
Spideyjg said:
Any idea how those compare to the one Jon has at Japanese Knife Imports?
Click to expand...

If you have wide bevel Japanese knives in wear resistant steels they are very nice. For day to day on most other chores I would not advise getting them.

Slow cutting for their grit rating and they load easily. But...diamonds.
 
Learning new stuff hard!

:p

Still working on changing up to the push-pull, scrub style. I'm getting it, slowly. As a reminder, I've spent many years cocking my elbow out and bending my wrist in a wide arc type motion. Where you basically plant your fingers the spine in one spot and work the knife back and forth on the stone. You see it quite a lot but it's different than that steady back and forth and drawing the blade across the stone as you work that you want with water stones.

I actually think trying to focus on when to apply pressure is messing me up than anything else. On my oil stones, I kept it constant forward and back. I'm trying to focus on pressure edge trailing and let off coming back. I think this is really messing with me. I catch myself digging in going away once in a while. That throws off my angle too.

Throwing a bit too much at myself all at once. I'm going to chill about the pressure and focus on the motion. I did that tonight with a knife, just using moderate pressure in both directions and I was much more relaxed.

If you're new to all this, you're in a better place than I am so don't let my whining bother you! I'm just trying to change some fundamental things that I've engrained over many years.

Anyway, still very happy with this direction and just sharing my experiences. This has added a freshness to the hobby that I've been wanting. A new challenge, new things to study and buy, new goals to set.

:)
 
Oh, and I'm also learning to switch hands. This is another thing I'm really glad I'm doing and proof that you're better off if you don't have existing "bad habits". I slow down a little with my left hand and am actually steadier and the bevel on that side is much more consistent than my right/strong side.

One thing that is interesting is my natural hold angle is lower on my left hand. I'm sharpening in a sheet (cookie) tray to catch the water. I put my stone holder in the center of it. My right hand never touches anything. But when I switch to my left, my knuckles brush across the lip of the tray. Without even looking at the marker on the bevel, I know right away I'm too low.
 
Eli Chaps said:
Oh, and I'm also learning to switch hands. This is another thing I'm really glad I'm doing and proof that you're better off if you don't have existing "bad habits". I slow down a little with my left hand and am actually steadier and the bevel on that side is much more consistent than my right/strong side.

One thing that is interesting is my natural hold angle is lower on my left hand. I'm sharpening in a sheet (cookie) tray to catch the water. I put my stone holder in the center of it. My right hand never touches anything. But when I switch to my left, my knuckles brush across the lip of the tray. Without even looking at the marker on the bevel, I know right away I'm too low.
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Don't get too caught up in how you think the mechanics should be, study your hands and the tool,in motion and look for where slop develops.

Some tools really do need to be sharpened a specific way, but that is driven by the tool itself. Most of the time you just need to ID where you fight yourself, where there's slop, where you rock solid.

A video of yourself sharpening is not a bad idea or you can sort of defocus and study your hands letting tactile sensation guide you.

You may find you come around to a very similar method used by others or you may be better off with a different approach. Whatever offers the most control and then whatever offers control and speed if time is $ or just for the challenge.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Don't get too caught up in how you think the mechanics should be, study your hands and the tool,in motion and look for where slop develops.

Some tools really do need to be sharpened a specific way, but that is driven by the tool itself. Most of the time you just need to ID where you fight yourself, where there's slop, where you rock solid.

A video of yourself sharpening is not a bad idea or you can sort of defocus and study your hands letting tactile sensation guide you.

You may find you come around to a very similar method used by others or you may be better off with a different approach. Whatever offers the most control and then whatever offers control and speed if time is $ or just for the challenge.
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Yessir, I agree 100%. I had a go at my Spyderco Manix 2 LW in BD1 tonight. Obviously, very sharpening friendly and it was already pretty sharp and I have been doing pretty well. But, got so over-focused on my technique that the right side bevel was wavy. Nothing terrible and I'll fix it up, but definitely there.

So, I just let things go a bit and focused more on being relaxed and natural and sharpened up my wife's kitchen knife and it went much better. Just need to remember to relax and settle in to what feels right. I'll get it. :)
 
Pressure control is the hardest part for me to learn. However, if you manage it then it really unlocks the muddier stones.

BTW there are two Black Friday water stone sales - one at MTC Kitchen and one at Sharpening Supplies.
 
Eli Chaps said:
Oh, and I'm also learning to switch hands. This is another thing I'm really glad I'm doing and proof that you're better off if you don't have existing "bad habits". Quote]
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But can you switch hands without losing a stroke??:D
 
Ourorboros said:
Pressure control is the hardest part for me to learn. However, if you manage it then it really unlocks the muddier stones.

BTW there are two Black Friday water stone sales - one at MTC Kitchen and one at Sharpening Supplies.
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in one of the many videos i seen , one suggested a scale (10$ on amazon) . Place your knife on it a give it 4lbs of force. then do with 8lbs.
 
It's hard for me to learn in relation to my muscle memory. I can feel the difference, but my hands want to do what they are used to doing.
 
Ourorboros said:
Pressure control is the hardest part for me to learn. However, if you manage it then it really unlocks the muddier stones.

BTW there are two Black Friday water stone sales - one at MTC Kitchen and one at Sharpening Supplies.
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I got 3 Shapton glass stones 120, 220, and 500 for 104 shipped from MTC.

I have the 320, 2K, and 4K and I always really liked the 320 so I figured I would try out the other lower grit glass stones.
 
willc said:
I got 3 Shapton glass stones 120, 220, and 500 for 104 shipped from MTC.

I have the 320, 2K, and 4K and I always really liked the 320 so I figured I would try out the other lower grit glass stones.
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I started out with the usual run of 320-1K-5K Shapton Pros. I've played with more stones since then.
Now I have moved away from the 320. I use either a 220 to set a bevel or 500 to quickly apex. I have coarser stones for repair work. Then I go to 2K (various) and then polishing (various).
 
Ourorboros said:
I started out with the usual run of 320-1K-5K Shapton Pros. I've played with more stones since then.
Now I have moved away from the 320. I use either a 220 to set a bevel or 500 to quickly apex. I have coarser stones for repair work. Then I go to 2K (various) and then polishing (various).
Click to expand...

Shapton Pro stones are good but the lower grit ones are not the best for me.

I still will use my 320 Pro but I much prefer the 320 glass stone.
The Pro 320 is very muddy and I prefer a lighter color stone, the dark blue mud can make things more difficult.

Depending on the stone 220 is usually where I start with a new knife to get rid of the factory grind.
So I am curious and looking forward to how the 220 Glass does.

My most used 220 is the Nubatama black stone.
It can hog of metal yet if I let it mud up and use super light pressure many times I can go to the hardwood strop right after this stone and have a great edge.
 
Depends on the bonding, Jon also sells a Vitrified Stone that doesn't load and cuts fast.

HeavyHanded said:
If you have wide bevel Japanese knives in wear resistant steels they are very nice. For day to day on most other chores I would not advise getting them.

Slow cutting for their grit rating and they load easily. But...diamonds.
Click to expand...
 
Spideyjg said:
Any idea how those compare to the one Jon has at Japanese Knife Imports?
Click to expand...

Jon at JKI has 4 different diamond Waterstones.

3 different resin diamond stones
300grit, 1k, 6k
Resin stones cut slower, have less feedback and load up needing to be cleaned often but cost less and don't dish as much if they have very hard resin bonds.

The 300grit is more expensive but comes thicker and comes with a flattener.

Lastly is the more expensive 800 grit Vitrified Diamond Waterstone.

The Vitrified Diamond Waterstone has more feedback like a traditional waterstone, cuts faster, doesn't load like the resin stone and needs a soak before use.


The first major difference between Jon's stone and the Super Vitrified Diamond is that the bonding on the Super Vitrified Stone is harder/denser and splash and go
 
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