Why?

[Codger_64]

Right Here

Your link takes me to the google search engine. A very poor way to defend one's opinion stated as fact.

Yes, I have had workers break good flawless clear grain sledge hammer hickory handles by misuse. They get to use Big Claude until they learn how to properly swing a sledge. Clause is a light eight pounder with a steel handle they can't break. Most learn rather quickly and get to go back to the more forgiving, shock absorbing hickory handles of the twelve pounder in short order.

Yes KingKoma, user error. Learning to use a variety of tools is important throughout life. It seems that these days tool knowledge... proper use and care... is not as common as it once was. It seems to me then that the challenge to those so inclined is to properly learn to use a variety of tools, and not to attempt to use one tool for all tasks. But then I am just an old Codger. And I understand the attraction to playing with knives. Seeing how far one can push a knife. I guess I kinda worked through that myself when I was a kid. To a kid with a new hammer, everything looks like a nail. To a kid with a new knife... :thumbup:

 

[pvicenzi]

When I was growing up, we heated our home with wood. We had to split almost 10 chords of hardwood every year. If I had tried to split the wood with a knife, we would have froze. There is no way a knife could have done the task. Baton if you wish, but an ax, or maul is the tool to use when splitting wood. Unles of course, you have a hydraulic splitter handy.

 

[mtangent]

Axes & mauls aren't the only tools for splitting wood. A froe is specifically for splitting wood by battonning, e.g. for making shingles. Froe's are more like knives than axes, & it should be possible to make a knife that can double as a froe. Many knives aren't made this way, but I'm sure some are. The traditional design would be a thick spine & differential HT. Some modern steels may be tough enough to survive without a differential HT, time will tell.

I think many knives are made without this in mind, & shouldn't be battoned. But some knives are made for batoning, it should be OK.

Some pics of froe's:

 

[Franciscomv]

When I was growing up, we heated our home with wood. We had to split almost 10 chords of hardwood every year. If I had tried to split the wood with a knife, we would have froze. There is no way a knife could have done the task. Baton if you wish, but an ax, or maul is the tool to use when splitting wood. Unles of course, you have a hydraulic splitter handy.

Well, mate, you were at home. I use wood heating in my mountain house and of course I won't split half a ton of wood with a little knife. I'm not saying a knife is the best tool to split wood all the time anywhere.

I'm saying that when every gram counts, I'm not carrying an axe. In those cases, if used within some limitations indicated by common sense, a knife can baton through wood without issues. Last time I batoned a lot was during a month long trip on foot through Patagonia (we had unusually humid weather), lots of walking and lots of supplies that needed to be carried. A knife was just more versatile than an axe and I didn't have enough room for both.

I you're home, car camping or something like that, sure grab the proper tool and it will make your life easier.

 

[gytheran]

Your link takes me to the google search engine. A very poor way to defend one's opinion stated as fact.

Yes, I have had workers break good flawless clear grain sledge hammer hickory handles by misuse. They get to use Big Claude until they learn how to properly swing a sledge. Clause is a light eight pounder with a steel handle they can't break. Most learn rather quickly and get to go back to the more forgiving, shock absorbing hickory handles of the twelve pounder in short order.

Yes KingKoma, user error. Learning to use a variety of tools is important throughout life. It seems that these days tool knowledge... proper use and care... is not as common as it once was. It seems to me then that the challenge to those so inclined is to properly learn to use a variety of tools, and not to attempt to use one tool for all tasks. But then I am just an old Codger. And I understand the attraction to playing with knives. Seeing how far one can push a knife. I guess I kinda worked through that myself when I was a kid. To a kid with a new hammer, everything looks like a nail. To a kid with a new knife... :thumbup:

Don't misunderstand... I have nothing to defend. They break and people get hurt. I'm not here to prove it to you and I gave you the means to look it up for yourself if you were honestly interested in the topic. Why do I have to describe the hazards of using an axe to someone with 50+ years experience with one? Surely, you would have already garnered that knowledge a LONG time ago. Or am I wrong?

I asked what happens WHEN it breaks?

 

[Codger_64]

Don't misunderstand... I have nothing to defend. They break and people get hurt. I'm not here to prove it to you and I gave you the means to look it up for yourself if you were honestly interested in the topic. Why do I have to describe the hazards of using an axe to someone with 50+ years experience with one? Surely, you would have already garnered that knowledge a LONG time ago. Or am I wrong?

I asked what happens WHEN it breaks?

I've never broken one. I know how to use one properly and not overreach or underreach. I know what a glancing blow is and how to prepare for it. Not much different than proper safety and use of a firearm. I've never shot myself or anyone else or had a gun blow up either.

I'll do your homework assignment and see if I can find anything about people getting hurt when an axe breaks.

 

[gytheran]

Two different situations there, slick. Don't twist it into something it's not.

 

[ron finkbeiner jr]

Axes & mauls aren't the only tools for splitting wood. A froe is specifically for splitting wood by battonning, e.g. for making shingles. Froe's are more like knives than axes, & it should be possible to make a knife that can double as a froe. Many knives aren't made this way, but I'm sure some are. The traditional design would be a thick spine & differential HT. Some modern steels may be tough enough to survive without a differential HT, time will tell.

I think many knives are made without this in mind, & shouldn't be battoned. But some knives are made for batoning, it should be OK.

Some pics of froe's:

Nifty!

 

[Codger_64]

Two different situations there, slick. Don't twist it into something it's not.

I'm not sure who "slick" is but I am not having much luck finding stats on axe injuries due to broken axes. I'll keep looking though.

 

[gytheran]

I'm not sure who "slick" is but I am not having much luck finding stats on axe injuries due to broken axes. I'll keep looking though.

Explains a lot. Done.

Have fun in your search.

 

[Codger_64]

I did find CPSC recalls on Gerber and Coleman camp axes (hatchets). The Gerber has a knife blade in the handle that comes out when choping and five users report injuries with stitches required. The Coleman has a plastic handle which could crack, two have with the head flying off but no reported injuries. These are cheap axe-like objects, $20-28. I'll keep looking.

 

[Sullie]

Gytheran, are you saying a knife is a safer alternative to an axe for someone who doesn't know how to use an axe? You think a google search of axe injuries will be enough to convince some one that battoning is a better alternative to using an axe for its intended purpose? And if I google knife injuries should I stop using my knife for its intended purpose if I find some? If you need to split wood, you use an axe, unless it is an "extreme survival" situation of course...although I have gotten some nice fires going in less than favourable conditions without battoning....
People who need to split wood use an axe. Is it safer to use a knife? Sure, I guess if you really have no idea how to properly handle an axe. But I think it would be a better use of time to learn how to properly handle an axe than to baton wood in your backyard

-yes people get hurt using an axe unfortunately. But that is no reason not to use one...I mean really?

 

[Sullie]

If you want to baton with your knife, by all means, please do. Just don't try and say it is a better alternative to an axe for splitting wood....That's just silly, regardless of how many people hurt themselves with an axe

 

[gytheran]

Gytheran, are you saying a knife is a safer alternative to an axe for someone who doesn't know how to use an axe? You think a google search of axe injuries will be enough to convince some one that battoning is a better alternative to using an axe for its intended purpose? And if I google knife injuries should I stop using my knife for its intended purpose if I find some? If you need to split wood, you use an axe, unless it is an "extreme survival" situation of course...although I have gotten some nice fires going in less than favourable conditions without battoning....
People who need to split wood use an axe. Is it safer to use a knife? Sure, I guess if you really have no idea how to properly handle an axe. But I think it would be a better use of time to learn how to properly handle an axe than to baton wood in your backyard

-yes people get hurt using an axe unfortunately. But that is no reason not to use one...I mean really?

Actually I never said not to use an axe. Not once. When I go camping or hiking I have a hatchet, folding saw, and my knives... but... I don't typically split wood... ever. There's no reason to unless I'm trying to get dry kindling to start a fire. The only issue I have is the ridiculous dogpile that goes on every time someone mentions splitting wood with a large knife. The broken knife in this thread was clearly a manufacturer defect, yet it becomes some sort of "proof" that knives can't split wood. The problem is, there are pros and cons to both methods of processing wood. It's not exactly feasible to backpack with a 6lb splitting maul, just as it's not practical to split a cord of wood with a bowie knife. Each has their place. Perhaps instead of shunning the technique of batoning altogether(that has apparently been around a lot longer than some will acknowledge), maybe people should take a different approach and point out the proper times to use the technique. That way, you may be able to steer some of these people away from destroying their tools. Either way, the tirades get old.

 

[jac_solar]

Have you guys seen this axe? It's a new take on the axe invented by a finnish guy.

The axe has been reinvented – in a patented Finnish invention!

VIPUKIRVES™ is an efficient tool for chopping firewood, possessing many advantages, such as speed and work safety, over traditional axes and small hydraulic log splitters. VIPUKIRVES™ separates sections from the log using a
unique lever action that allows logs with branches to be split into firewood in
seconds. The splitting force of VIPUKIRVES™ is considerably stronger than with a traditional axe.

Strike and loosen!

VIPUKIRVES™ has an ingenious design. Upon striking the log, it automatically turns to the right and detaches the chopped portion from the log. VIPUKIRVES™ functions like a convention axe with the exception that the user must loosen his/her the grip on the handle when the blade strikes the log. Chopped sections are removed with a single strike and the blade doesn't become lodged in the log, but keeps it in the same place and ready for the next strike.

http://vipukirves.fi/english/

[video=youtube;KCJADv2shNE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCJADv2shNE[/video]

 

[McVeyMac]

For me it is really quite simple. My chainsaws and hydraulic splitter do not fit well in my backpack. If camping, I pack a folding saw and a hatchet. If driving to work, I have a fixed blade knife ether in my pocket or on my belt. Using a knife to make firewood for me is an essential skill and proper, using proper technique, as is batoning through small trees to make shelter poles. But when I camp, I prefer a tent. When I am using a knife to make shelter poles or split wood, I am only refining my skills or teaching children how to dot it safely and correctly in the event of an "oh crap" situation. But in any situation I prefer splitting fine kindling with a knife, even if starting a fire in a wood stove. Hatchets are too thick and will break a fine split before getting a stove length piece of kindling. I have belt hatchets felling axes, splitting axes and splitting mauls, and I use them all, occasionally. But most of my firewood is made with chainsaws and hydraulic splitter.

 

[dogstar]

Have you guys seen this axe? It's a new take on the axe invented by a finnish guy.

:thumbdn: Taking mankind's oldest inventions and making it more complicated than is necessary. Looks off-balance as heck. Also, it's only for righties. And, what's with the edits right when he has to pull out the blade, which show that this invention doesn't work all the time?

 

[jac_solar]

:thumbdn: Taking mankind's oldest inventions and making it more complicated than is necessary. Looks off-balance as heck. Also, it's only for righties. And, what's with the edits right when he has to pull out the blade, which show that this invention doesn't work all the time?

Not sure, I just posted a random video I found on youtube, but you can see him chopping without any edits or cuts in the video as well.

According to the instructions on the website, "with the exception that the user must loosen his/her the grip on the handle when the blade strikes the log.", so it will most likely require a lot of practice.

 

[McVeyMac]

Not sure, I just posted a random video I found on youtube, but you can see him chopping without any edits or cuts in the video as well.

According to the instructions on the website, "with the exception that the user must loosen his/her the grip on the handle when the blade strikes the log.", so it will most likely require a lot of practice.

The tire and the stump won't fit in my pack either.

 

[SaintlyBrees]

Your link takes me to the google search engine. A very poor way to defend one's opinion stated as fact.

Yes, I have had workers break good flawless clear grain sledge hammer hickory handles by misuse. They get to use Big Claude until they learn how to properly swing a sledge. Clause is a light eight pounder with a steel handle they can't break. Most learn rather quickly and get to go back to the more forgiving, shock absorbing hickory handles of the twelve pounder in short order.

Yes KingKoma, user error. Learning to use a variety of tools is important throughout life. It seems that these days tool knowledge... proper use and care... is not as common as it once was. It seems to me then that the challenge to those so inclined is to properly learn to use a variety of tools, and not to attempt to use one tool for all tasks. But then I am just an old Codger. And I understand the attraction to playing with knives. Seeing how far one can push a knife. I guess I kinda worked through that myself when I was a kid. To a kid with a new hammer, everything looks like a nail. To a kid with a new knife... :thumbup:

FWIW, I agree with you. Some 50 years spent splitting wood (which is now one of my main sources of winter heat) and I have never broken an axe or hatchet. I can't recall my Dad ever breaking one either - so that totals over 100 years worth of wood splitting between the two of us (Dad has now passed). If people are breaking decent tools, then they are likely using them wrong.

Back on the OP - I see nothing wrong with batoning if one wants to do things that way and has the right knife for the job. I do it occasionally myself just to have fun. But, if I am working at wholesale wood splitting then I'm using an axe.

JMO.