wich knife steel will be more dependable

V

vodreb

Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
16
Ok, they are the same knives, made by Doug Ritter but, come in 2 different steels:

M2 hardened to 60-62 HRC only has a black epoxy coating - they call it BT2

CPM S30V hardened to 58-60 HRC Comes in uncoated and coated.

The two questions are which steel will be better in a survival situation, harsh environments, infrequent cleaning and medium to heavy wear. The 2nd question, IF I go with the S30V steel, is do I want the coating.

Imp going to be treating all the knives with TUF-Cloth Marine coating.

What do you guys think? I WILL be using this in survival, I do allot of primitive camping, and I carry a kabar combat knife in D2 steel, and I was looking for a folder to replace my CRKT m16-14sf

Thanks for the advice. I plan on getting wich ever knife you guys recomend 2night.
 
M2 is tougher..I THINK.. and if you use it often, the coatings will wear, so keep it wiped down, since it WILL rust at the drop of a hat in dampness
 
As much as I like S-30V, I strongly prefer M2. It's not even a fair contest. M2 takes a particularly keen edge, which works wonderfully for woodcraft. It also holds an edge very well, partly due to it's hgher than normal hardness. You won't roll the edge very often.

M2 is not a stainless steel though, so you do need to keep an eye on it. Benchmade's black coating looks like hell after a bit of use, but it does an excellent job of resisting corrosion. You just need to keep an eye on the pivot area and the actual edge, where there is no coating.

Either way you go, I'd opt for the black coating. It isn't pretty, but from a functional perspective, it can only help you. It can't hurt you, except in terms of aesthetics.

Be prepared. The Ritter-Grip is a huge improvement over your M16, in terms cutting performance and lock security.
 
Ah, thankyou buzz.

Ya, hmm, its a hard choice, cause when i do primitive camping, i take my Mag Fire Starter the 2 knives, diamond knife sharpener, and my hat(treated with sawer). That’s all the gear I take, so I can’t really clean it infield much. I usually go for 5 days min, and sometimes for 3 weeks at a time if I can get the time off work. So, is that too long to wait for that sort of knife? I could always rub it down with dried dirt to try and remove as much of the moister - but im not sure if that is a good practice.

Ya, aesthetics don’t matter at all to me.

The only reason i wasnt sure, was because i didnt know how well it stayed on, and id rather save 15 bucks if it was something that would scratch off in 20 min.

And, i do do alot of wood craft in field so the fact that it can take it is a +.

So, you say M2 is the way to go? Ok then.



- Er, on a compleetly unrelated topic, as i was typing this, i got to watch a guy on a moter cycle die in the street... Did a u turn on my street and got hit by a car going 30mph and the biker didnt have a helmet on. - In texas u dont have to. The paramedic tried to revive him, but no luck. Now i got this blood stain just where my driveway ends......
 
Buzzbait said:
As much as I like S-30V, I strongly prefer M2. It's not even a fair contest. M2 takes a particularly keen edge, which works wonderfully for woodcraft. It also holds an edge very well, partly due to it's hgher than normal hardness. You won't roll the edge very often.

M2 is not a stainless steel though, so you do need to keep an eye on it.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. I much prefer a carbon (M2) steel to a stainless steel for woodcraft. It takes a little more care, but to me, the benefits outweigh the trade-off. Just my 0.2;)
 
M2 will take a very nice edge and hold it for a respectable amount of time without rolling or chipping unless you do hard chopping. It will also hold it at higher temps.

S30V has had some chipping problems from various manufacturers due most likely to heat treat. It is a stainless and thus less prone to forming rust or patina. Its also supposed to be a tough steel that has good edge retention. It seems to be a popular steel right now.


Either will do the job but I prefer M2 myself. I have the M2 ritter grip and its a great slicer. It makes short work of boxes, plastics and other industrial byproducts.
 
I doubt you would notice much difference even if you carried both and used them on alternate days. The M2 is certainly a good choice, though, and often not as easy to find.

Marine Tuff-Cloth is also a good choice but it will wear off after a while. Three weeks is quite a while. Be prepared to wipe off any real crud with dry grass or your shirt cuff rather than dirt. You do not need dirt in the pivot or in the axis lock. A good way to clean the rust-prone cutting edge of an M2 knife is to strop it on your pants leg after use.
 
As a side note Cabellas also carries a D2 version of the mini grip if you like that steel. It is a bit less quick to rust than M2. If you use the M2, or just leave it at home make sure to treat the M2's edge with Marine coat as it will dull from oxidation given time even indoors. A2 does it too.

I'd take the M2 personally. I've had chipping problems with S30V when opening plastic bags containing dog treats, not touching a cutting board or anything else. I've lost confidence in it though I know there are more people that love it than distrust it. It does cut good.

1st. choice M2, 2nd is cabellas D2. Then 154. Just my opinions and not facts about which is a better steel. I'd even take 440V over S30V.

Good luck, have fun. Joe L.
 
I would go for stainless in a folder. Maybe not S30V for "ease" of sharpening (but diamonds will solve this) but definitely stainless.

IMHO it is better to don't fear of stain in pivot area (where you won't see it but it can be there) than having high speed tool steel.
(also I would take stainless without coating, as polished steel is imho easier to clean)
 
I doubt that you would notice any difference in actual use.
Either blade-steel will work just fine and both are much better than the steel out pioneer forefathers had when they settled this country.
And both steels are better than the typical steel used by primitive people living all around the world right now.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
Ok, well, im guna place that order, i didnt do it last night because i wanted to see what more people said. It seems that the majority agree, and most important, that ones that realy know knives agree. Thankyou everyone
 
I think either should work well. The type of steel is just one of many knife variables. There are awefully poor knife designs made of good steel and some great designs made from marginal steels. Heat treating, grind, and blade/handle shape are all important.

Most important is to get a knife from a real McCoy knife company that knows what they are doing and has proven it by staying in business for many years.
 
allenC said:
I doubt that you would notice any difference in actual use.
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I would normally agree with that statement, but not in this exact case. I think that the difference would be noticeable, when used for woodcraft/campcraft. The M2 seems to take a wickedly keen edge, that you do notice when working with wood. And I think that the lack of edge roll would also become very apparent, when the knife is used as often as this knife will be, under less than optimal sharpening conditions. I really do feel that strongly about M2, when used in a folder for woodcraft.

For basic utility knife functions, that most of us use our knives for all day long, I don’t think the difference would be very noticeable. You cut a few pieces of cardboard. You open a bag of Gummy Bears at work. You cut down a pizza box for the trash. And you sharpen the knife 3 weeks later. I don’t think that many would notice a great difference between any of the more common knife steels, higher in wear resistance that Aus-8. The difference with woodcraft is that wear resistance is not so much the dominant factor.


Vodreb - One more thing. A charged piece of stropping leather would be a great (and very small and light) addition to your gear, should you decide to go with the M2 blade. When it comes to M2, a diamond hone sounds like serious overkill, to maintain the edge. It would remove far more steel than is necessary to maintain the edge, unless the edge is seriously messed up. Even a single piece of quality 1200 grit wet/dry paper would work as a very serviceable stropping material.
 
Why am I the only person who seems to think the Ritter Grips should be named the Ritter Rip-offs. Take a $65 dollar knife and substitute S30V or M2 for 154CM and now all of a sudden its a $120 ro $130 knife? Sorry, no.

For $130 you can get other axis lock Benchmades in the same steels and with G-10 or aluminum handles as opposed to a partial liner FRN handle.

Get a 710 in D2 w/ Benchcote. Its no contest IMO, its a cheaper, better knife.

After all that though, if you have to get one, I'd personally get the M2 version.
 
I much prefer the Griptilian models to the 710. As strong as the 710 is, the ergonomics of the Griptilians are far superior. The thumb stud is much easier to access on the Griptilian. The implementation of the Axis lock on the Griptilians is much smoother than on my 710HS. I also like the blade grind of the Ritter-Grips MUCH better. Don't even get me going on the 710's super-slippery G-10 finish. Except for overall strength, I find the Ritters to be far superior for woodcraft/campcraft.
 
ginshun said:
Why am I the only person who seems to think the Ritter Grips should be named the Ritter Rip-offs. Take a $65 dollar knife and substitute S30V or M2 for 154CM and now all of a sudden its a $120 ro $130 knife? Sorry, no.

For $130 you can get other axis lock Benchmades in the same steels and with G-10 or aluminum handles as opposed to a partial liner FRN handle.

Get a 710 in D2 w/ Benchcote. Its no contest IMO, its a cheaper, better knife.

After all that though, if you have to get one, I'd personally get the M2 version.
Click to expand...

Doug Ritter is collaborating with benchmade to be distributed exclusivly by Aeromedix. Due to its exclusivity aeromedix can charge MSRP and people will pay it. They have no choice. Basically its on par with other benchmades MSRP prices but since guys like NewGraham and Knifeoutlet cant get their hands on it the public is forced to pay MSRP if they want it.

I like the wide chord of the ritter and find it excellent for field work. If the D2 was a little bigger I'd probably get one of those as well.

Well, I shouldnt kid myself. I love D2 and I'll probably end up with the D2 griptilian as well.

I believe the original poster would be better off with the D2 than either the S30V or M2 but he didnt ask for what other knife would be better. D2 is renounded for taking an edge for a long time and keeping it. It seems especially good at taking toothy, low grit edges that are ideal for bushcraft and fiberous material cutting. Its easy to touch up a D2 blade with a diamond rod since it only takes 1 or 2 swipes per side in the field and thats probably more than he will need during a 3 week camping trip.

Plus the D2 is only $80 online which is about 2/3 the price of the ritters. The M2 ritters are a limited run though. He can always get a D2 grip later.
 
For that kind of camping, do you really want a folder? Why not just two fixed blades (one larger, one smaller)?

M2 will perform better, or at least it will be tougher, but it will rust more readily.

S30V holds an edge for a long time, but can tend to chip with heavy work. It isn't a weak steel by any means, but M2 is tougher. But S30V is "stainless". It is not immune to rust, but it will resist it *MUCH* better.

So it comes down to:

Will you do a lot of heavy-duty work such as chopping at wood and batoning? Look at M2.

Will you be using the knife in damp environments and not be able to dry it off and treat it with your Tuf-Cloth often? Look at S30V.

It appears that both are true for you, so you have to decide which is more important for you.

I would recommend a tough fixed blade with a tough but semi-stainless steel.

Anything by Bob Dozier, or Busse would fit the bill. Just get the size you want.

Doziers are amazing cutters, have the best ergonomics in the biz, and are tough. They usually come in D2, which is damn near stainless, but still pretty tough (it is brittle compared to other tool steels, though).

Busses are by all accounts the toughest knives. Period. And they can cut well too. They come in INFI, which is Busse's own steel. It is uber-tough, and also very close to stainless.

Doziers cut better and feel better. Busses are tougher.

Busses and Doziers start around $200, but for your kind of camping, I would not try to save some cash on a tool that your life depends on.

But there is nothing wrong with folders, and nothing wrong with the Ritter Griptilians, or any Griptilian. He designed them for outdoor chores.

But (#2), I do not like compromises in my knives. Doziers are like pure race cars and Busses are like Military Hummers. Uncompromised. Super high performance with no B.S.

I simply like that kind of knife. You border on needing one.
 
To each his own. I just don't think I could bring myself to pay $130 plus shipping for an FRN handled knife. Especially when I can get the same knife in 154CM for half the price. To me that upgrade just doesn't justify doubling the price.

I'd buy a 710, a 920, a 940, and a 960 all before a Ritter. Like I said, thats just me though.
 
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