Wicked Edge 1.6 and .6 micron stones

Joe Manco

Joe Manco

Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
882
Bought a WE pro pack 1 with quartz base, 1200/1600 ceramics and the 1.6/.6 micron ceramics. Question is, should I return the ceramics and use lapping films?
 
Well set it up today and did a cheap kitchen knife, probably too long and thin but wanted to break I the stones. Went from 100-1600. Not real impressed. 1600 has no polish and the1200/1600 ceramic paddles are not as thick as the diamond paddles so you need to adjust your angle to match the bevels(yea there is a kit for that another $40) and the knife didn't come out that sharp. The ceramic stones need to be lapped and are rough and chalky out of the box. My 1.6/.6 micron paddles won't be here till tomorrow so I hope they do the trick. Also need to get straws to take out the play between the paddle hole and the rod. REAL expensive for what you get in my opinion and even more expensive upgrades to take the slop out of the arms. For the price I think all the "upgrades"'that are in reality fixes should come standard. I'm going to go all in and give it a few weeks to let everything break in and to learn. As my father always taught me "it's not the tool, it's the man behind it". Same kinda process with the edge pro for me, now I can get a nice mirror finish with it and the 2300 and4k EP polishing stones but use the ultra fine sharpmaker to get blades ultra sharp. I just don't like the mess I make with the EP.
 
Read through this thread:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...echStudio-K01-Profile-Sharpening-System/page3


You can put basically whatever stone you want in there. Pretty much it just needs to be rectangular and at least 4 inches, IIRC, and no longer than 8 or 9. With this other system you're not really bound by whatever the manufacturer sells or by strict size limits. Buying a naniwa or chosera for the edge pro or wicked edge is EXPENSIVE. Buying a regular bench stone? Not really. Not for their size. Buy one and throw it in this thing and do what you do.
 
Well I guess I started with the wrong knife and got a little cranky after not liking the results.

I just did my BM 707 Sequel. I had already sharpened it with my edge pro about a month ago by just matching the factory bevel of about 18-20 degrees. I just reprofiled it to 15 dps and worked up to the 1600 ceramic. Came out VERY sharp and a low polish. Took me about an hour but it's only my second knife on this thing a I'm pretty much working one side at a time. Tomorrow I will hit it with the1.6 then .6 I'm confident it will come out with a mirror finish. The whole purpose for me getting a WE was to get away from water stones so I won't be going that direction. Now I can sharpen on my coffee table(covered with a towel) instead of in the basement bathroom. I'll probably end up keeping the ceramics and experiment with lapping films eventually.
 
I went for lapping films,2000 and 3000 grit.New to this system but first two knives turned out pretty good.More practice needed on my part.
 
It is interesting, the ceramic stones from WE seem to do a good job, but I do find them unique, as you said they appear chalky, striated the length of the stone with a lot of small voids, it makes me wonder if they are softer than the typical ceramic and how fast they are going to wear. WE even puts a note in the box with them saying this chalky/lined appearance is "normal" and they are made using a proprietary process. I will say I don't like the variation in stone heights from WE across various stones. Ceramic is slightly shorter than the diamond stones, and the glass stones are thicker than either. Part of the WE appeal/marketing is speed/convenience between changing stones, so if I have to stop to micro-adjust angles when switching stones repeatedly, it's the exact opposite of that. It's one thing if I'm using another brand of stone, or something I've put together, but from WE they should all be the same height.

I'd say the other thing is the pro kits should IMO do away with the 800/1000 grit diamond and include a 600-1200 ceramic instead. With the 1000 diamond stone, even after "break in" it doesn't produce nearly as fine/polished of an edge as most people are going to want for a finished blade, unless they want a very aggressive toothy edge. Not even as polished as a medium 600 grit sharpmaker ceramic rod will generate. The Gen 3 pro pack is worse because you don't get anything at all past the 1000 grit diamond stone. I usually stop at the1600 ceramic or move to 9 and 3 micro films and stop there, but I'm not sharpening for mirror polish. I thought about getting the 1.6/0.6 stone as well, but decided to get the glass blank and try some various micron films to see what I liked, normally I'm using a 9/3 micron combo after the 1600 and that's more than enough for my edge needs. If I wanted to get a 100% mirror polish I'd have to go past it, so down the road I might try a 1.5/0.5 combo as well for giggles. I'm more form over function so for anything other than my kitchen knives I'm not going past the 1200 ceramic as it is, as I like a toothy edge for my EDC.
 
^^^ Yes, I thought ALL the WE products were the same thickness, now I have to buy their kit for $40 to make changing stone thickness a little faster just like the edge pro, but the EP collar is only like $3. The WE did put a fantastic edge on my BM 707, with my EP I can get a fantastic polished edge but need to micro bevel(usually with a sharpmaker) to get it this sharp. Like I said, I'm going to play with it for a few weeks and probably end up with all the bells and whistles before I decide which I like better. The learning curve with the WE should be shorter then the EP. It's nice not having to hold the blade with one hand.
 
Huh

The 1200/1600 stones are different than the 100-1000 diamonds ?

That sucks I want to setup once and go through my grits
 
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How much difference is there between your diamond and ceramics? I just measured mine... the difference in thickness between the 1000g to the 1200/1600 ceramics on mine is approx. .0065". (Between the diamonds and the 1.4/.6 ceramics it's .0345"). (I measured by taking the total width of the stones subtracting the difference and dividing by 2... so it's approx. but should be close).

Usually there's enough 'slack' in the machine that the stones will match the bevel without adjustment. (Not to change the subject, but my .02 is that there should be some give or slack in the machine... make it too tight and you're constantly having to make adjustments. To me consistency is more important than absolute accuracy). Anyway, you might want to measure yours... if they're that far off that you need to make an actual adjustment... I'm wondering if it's a QC issue. The "Variable Stone Thickness Adapter" was made more with the waterstones in mind... not the ceramics.
 
cbwx34 said:
How much difference is there between your diamond and ceramics? I just measured mine... the difference in thickness between the 1000g to the 1200/1600 ceramics on mine is approx. .0065". (Between the diamonds and the 1.4/.6 ceramics it's .0345"). (I measured by taking the total width of the stones subtracting the difference and dividing by 2... so it's approx. but should be close).

Usually there's enough 'slack' in the machine that the stones will match the bevel without adjustment. (Not to change the subject, but my .02 is that there should be some give or slack in the machine... make it too tight and you're constantly having to make adjustments. To me consistency is more important than absolute accuracy). Anyway, you might want to measure yours... if they're that far off that you need to make an actual adjustment... I'm wondering if it's a QC issue. The "Variable Stone Thickness Adapter" was made more with the waterstones in mind... not the ceramics.
Click to expand...

I'm going to measure mine with my calipers and check

But I just did a blade last night and it looks fantastic

But havnt looked at it under scope
 
My 1k and 1200 are off by 1/2 degree and I can see it. I would need a micro adjustment to get it perfect.
 
Joe Manco said:
My 1k and 1200 are off by 1/2 degree and I can see it. I would need a micro adjustment to get it perfect.
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I would probably call WE and see if that's the norm. Don't think it is, but I could be wrong. I just can't recall anywhere that an adjustment needed to be made between the diamonds and ceramics (but I also can't remember what I had for breakfast.) :)
 
I measured a few of mine, but my caliper is not the best so I'm estimating beyond x.xx" and it's just the total width at the center of the stones.

New 50/80: 1.20"
used 100/200: 1.19"
used 400/600: 1.18"
used 800/1000: 1.18"
used 200/1600: 1.145"
glass blank : 1.185"

It's kind of interesting because looking at "stone" thickness above the carrier of them I'd have expected the glass blanks to be much thicker than the other stones, and the ceramic 1200/1400 visually appears very close to the fine diamond stone thickness. So I was surprised to see the glass blanks be the same thickness and the ceramic so much thinner.
 
Well the heck with both sets of ceramic stones for me. 1200-1400 only worked on half my edge, 1.4/.6 micron don't act like 1.4 or .6 or I don't know how to use them. I did my BM 943 blade today, reprofiled to 15dps, worked my way up from 100g to 1000g then tried the 1200 ceramic again and got caught between degree settings on the rod adjustments so I went back to 1k and straitened out the mess the 12k made. Then I went with 5 and 3.5 micron diamond past strop and it looked pretty good. My 1.4/.6 ceramic stones showed up today so I lapped them and tried them out(they are the same size as my diamond stone paddles so no problem there) but they scratched up the polish the strop made, didn't make sense. I went back to the 5 micron strop and took out the scratches the ceramic 1.4 made and spent about 10 more minutes stropping before going to the 3.5 and spent about 10 more minutes with that. Came out pretty dam good to me!
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Think I'm going to go with the 14/10 balsa and the 1/.5 strops and send the ceramics back(thanks Amazon Prime). I have some 3m lapping films with adhesive on the back on the way, think I could stick them on the ceramic stones to try them out before ordering glass paddles?

Edit:
Did some more reading last night and found out that you are suppose to use all the ceramics, then start strop. So 1k diamond stone, 1200 ceramic, 1600, 1.4m, .6m then the 5.3 diamond past strop(or what ever grit strops you have in order of grit high to low. Think that should come with the ceramic stones or me mentioned a little clearer. I'll try that next time. I have an email into Wicked Edge to find out if the 1200/1600 are suppose to come thinner then the others.
 
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Just did my manix in s110v last night and ended with my 1200/1600 to a semi polish

Push cuts paper like a boss

Now I just need to mill off the safety edges so I can actually sharpen the entire blade
 
Joe Manco said:
Yea, I was wondering how people did their spyderco's. A lot of work to do every stone!
Click to expand...

Na

Just bring in my handles put in Bridgeport vice and mill the plastic edges off

Piece of cake, do them at lunch time when I get a chance

Or trade some sharpening for some mill time
 
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ToddM said:
I measured a few of mine, but my caliper is not the best so I'm estimating beyond x.xx" and it's just the total width at the center of the stones.

New 50/80: 1.20"
used 100/200: 1.19"
used 400/600: 1.18"
used 800/1000: 1.18"
used 200/1600: 1.145"
glass blank : 1.185"

It's kind of interesting because looking at "stone" thickness above the carrier of them I'd have expected the glass blanks to be much thicker than the other stones, and the ceramic 1200/1400 visually appears very close to the fine diamond stone thickness. So I was surprised to see the glass blanks be the same thickness and the ceramic so much thinner.
Click to expand...

That would translate to about 1/4 deg. difference between the 800/1000g stones to the 1200/1600 ceramics (if I did the math right), and the ceramics should favor the edge (vs. the shoulder) of the bevel. So, could affect the finish, but shouldn't affect the sharpness.

Joe Manco said:
... My 1.4/.6 ceramic stones showed up today so I lapped them and tried them out(they are the same size as my diamond stone paddles so no problem there) but they scratched up the polish the strop made, didn't make sense. I went back to the 5 micron strop and took out the scratches the ceramic 1.4 made and spent about 10 more minutes stropping before going to the 3.5 and spent about 10 more minutes with that. Came out pretty dam good to me!

Edit:
Did some more reading last night and found out that you are suppose to use all the ceramics, then start strop. So 1k diamond stone, 1200 ceramic, 1600, 1.4m, .6m then the 5.3 diamond past strop(or what ever grit strops you have in order of grit high to low. Think that should come with the ceramic stones or me mentioned a little clearer. I'll try that next time. I have an email into Wicked Edge to find out if the 1200/1600 are suppose to come thinner then the others.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're on the right track.. as you read, use the ceramics before the strops. Although the ceramics are rated finer... strops will typically leave a finer finish, since it's a softer medium, plus some of the abrasive gets embedded into the strop, so the result is finer.

Joe Manco said:
Yea, I was wondering how people did their spyderco's. A lot of work to do every stone!
Click to expand...

If you don't want to grind off the plastic edge, on some knives you can tip the blade down a bit... this will allow the stone to make contact at the heel. (If you have a digital angle gauge, you can measure how far down the blade is tipped, so you can duplicate it). Just make sure you mark the edge and notice where metal is being removed, since tipping the blade can change the angle... especially in the curved belly/tip area.

Edit: Here's a recent thread in the W.E. forum, where they're talking about using the diamond films vs. the ceramics.
 
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