Wicked Edge 1.6 and .6 micron stones

Ok, just got off the phone with Kyle at WE. The 1200/1600 ceramic stones are thinner then the diamond stones, so the gen 2 arms with micro adjustment would be needed in some instances.

This the progression he recommends for a mirror finish for most blades.

XXX through the 1k diamond

1200 ceramic

1600 ceramic

1.6m ceramic

.4 ceramic

6m lapping film
or 14/10 strop
3m lapping film

5m strop

3.5 strop

If done correctly that should take out all the scratches and leave a mirror finish.

Edit: he also instructed me to always go from the hardest media to the softest no matter the grit. That is where I went wrong I guess.
So, it would go like this.

Diamond, ceramic, lapping film, balsa strop, leather strop.
 
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Joe Manco said:
Ok, just got off the phone with Kyle at WE. The 1200/1600 ceramic stones are thinner then the diamond stones, so the gen 2 arms with micro adjustment would be needed in some instances.
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Good to know. As an alternative to the Gen. 2 arms & micro adjustment, (since you currently have the Gen. 1 if I recall), if you have an angle gauge, you can flip either the arms around, or the angle bar, (so the arms no longer use the indents), and use the angle gauge to set/adjust the angles. (If you do this, make sure you tighten down the screw when you make an adjustment so it doesn't come loose and slip during sharpening).
 
cbwx34 said:
Good to know. As an alternative to the Gen. 2 arms & micro adjustment, (since you currently have the Gen. 1 if I recall), if you have an angle gauge, you can flip either the arms around, or the angle bar, (so the arms no longer use the indents), and use the angle gauge to set/adjust the angles. (If you do this, make sure you tighten down the screw when you make an adjustment so it doesn't come loose and slip during sharpening).
Click to expand...

WOW!! That's a great tip!!!

I did however go for the pro pac II upgrade with the gen 3 clamp(Kyle threw in a riser block for the original clamp so if needed I have the option of using either clamp). Cost has gotten out of control but sometimes you just have to buy once, cry once. Might consider sharpening as a side job just to justify owning it, once I get much better and confident.
 
cbwx34 said:
That would translate to about 1/4 deg. difference between the 800/1000g stones to the 1200/1600 ceramics (if I did the math right), and the ceramics should favor the edge (vs. the shoulder) of the bevel. So, could affect the finish, but shouldn't affect.
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It wouldn't affect the sharpness if you were to stop there. If you went on to the 1.4/.6 ceramics you would be missing the apex. I have not measured mine but they fall somewhere between the degree notches. The tip about turning the arms around would have solved this though.
 
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I received the variable stone thickness adapter today. Too much slop in the standard arm joints to use affectedly. I also have a set of aluminum and glass blank paddles and 12, 9, 5, and 3 micron film coming. Kinda thinking I'm going to be ditching the ceramics and using the films, balsa strop and leather strops but time will tell.
 
Received my ball joint arms and 5m film. Defiantly like it better then the 1.4/.6 ceramics. 12,9, and 3micron film should be here today. I bought 3m(brand) film with adhesive backing in sheets for under $7 per sheet and you can make 18 strips out of one sheet to fit the paddles. I used a paper slicing table(kind with the long knife arm) to cut them up in no time. The 5 micron film doesn't get all the 1k grit scratches out easily but the 12 or 9 should work much faster.
 
Joe Manco said:
Received my ball joint arms and 5m film. Defiantly like it better then the 1.4/.6 ceramics. 12,9, and 3micron film should be here today. I bought 3m(brand) film with adhesive backing in sheets for under $7 per sheet and you can make 18 strips out of one sheet to fit the paddles. I used a paper slicing table(kind with the long knife arm) to cut them up in no time. The 5 micron film doesn't get all the 1k grit scratches out easily but the 12 or 9 should work much faster.
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Need to share something I was not aware of. 3m makes at least three grades of lapping film, aluminum oxide, silicon, and diamond. The type WE sells is the diamond and the most expensive and not as overpriced as I thought, best I could find was only $3 cheaper plus shipping. I bought the silicon sheets and I'm not impressed with the 12m, can't remove the 1k diamond scratches. The 1200 ceramic doesn't either(at least for me), wish they made a 1200 diamond stone. Think I'm going to try 1500, 2000, and2500 grit sand paper with scotch double sided tape on a blank aluminum paddle. Then the lapping film. Anyone use the WE lapping film? How is it at removing the 1k scratches. Then again maybe my 1k stone isn't broken in enough although I have used it on about 5 knives so far. Thanks.

Edit:
Found diamond lapping film in 8 1/2 x 11 sheets with adhesive backing for $10 per sheet. Should be able to make 20 strips per sheet. You have to call then email to order. They also have them without the psa adhesive backing for $7 per sheet. Spoke with George and he told me we want item 66P for knife sharpening offered in 15, 9, 6, 3, 1, and 0.5 micron. I ordered a sheet of each. The aluminum and silicone lapping films I ordered are for paint and wood that's why the performed poorly on steel.

Here is a link
http://nanolaptech.com/
 
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It took about 15 knives to break in my diamond stones on the WE, which I think is pretty typical.
 
Joe Manco said:
Thanks, what exactly should I notice when they are fully broken in?
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The deep scratches from the diamond stones get much less prominent. The mirror finish from the 1200/1600 ceramic gets way better at that point in my experience. I use the 1.4/.6 micron stones as well but I find the work better between the 1k diamond stone and the 1200/1600 ceramic. I think it may have to do with the hardness.

The other thing that really helps me is not starting at the really coarse grits if I'm not doing a major reprofile. If I'm only thinning the edge by a couple degrees I start on the 600 or even the 800 grit. Less chance if leaving deep scratches that way as you progress through the grits.


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I've been through everything you're doing now, from micro ceramics to the lapping film. I came to realize that strops are what will mirror the edge. As you stated, the 1.4/.6 micron ceramics only scratch the blade. I found that running through all the stones, 100 grit through to 1.4/.6 micron ceramics, then switching to 14/12 micron strop then working my way down the strops works fantastic. I've only tried it once with a friend's 14/12 micron strops, but that seems key. Everything else that's harder, from ceramic to lapping films, always leave trace scratches behind. It seems only strop and paste matrix works for even finishes.

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Also, you still need a couple more knives to truly break in your stones. It makes a major difference. You'll feel them removing less material, but becoming smoother and more uniform in feel as you go. How many knives are necessary to break in depends on what steel you're doing, thickness, hardness, and also your method of using the system. You'll be able to feel the stones get smoother as you go.
I "scrub" with my stones moving them up and down, then I pull away with the strops; but I do one full length of strop per section of blade as I move down the length. This insures I'm not hitting uneven areas of the strop on specific areas of the edge if I were to stroke the edge in one even pull. Many people do one pull from base to tip on the stone then switch sides back and forth. This was too slow and didn't give results I wanted. I guess it comes down to whatever works best.

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I think I'm in the 7-10 knife totally on my diamonds and I can't really tell if things are broken in other than using my 1200/1600 ceramics seem to be giving me a semi polish finish that is good enough for me

Here's to hoping it only gets better from here
 
Thanks for all the help and advice. I'm being anal about the small scratches, the knife above has a mirror finish but if you look at it in the sun you can see micro scratches. The worse thing I probably did was buy a USB microscope, lol, not only does it let you see the scratches, it also shows you how perfect it could be without the scratches. The blade sharpness is the sharpest I have experienced!!
 
Joe Manco said:
Thanks for all the help and advice. I'm being anal about the small scratches, the knife above has a mirror finish but if you look at it in the sun you can see micro scratches. The worse thing I probably did was buy a USB microscope, lol, not only does it let you see the scratches, it also shows you how perfect it could be without the scratches. The blade sharpness is the sharpest I have experienced!!
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I'm the same way. I get done and it's mirror, but in the right light I can see imperfections. It drives me crazy! lol
Try higher grit strops and working down from those. They seem to work well. I even did the chosera stones and had no luck removing those fine scratches - and I used the full chosera set! The only additional help I've found that works best has been the lapping film, however I think the strops would be faster and just as effective/more effective.

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1500 and 2000 grit aluminum oxide wet dry sand paper works GREAT following the 1k diamond stone! In my opinion it's way better and faster then the ceramics. I used Scotch 3/4" double sided poster tape that fits the paddles perfectly AND you can remove the sandpaper strip and apply a new one without needing new tape(I didn't need a new strip of sandpaper I just experimented by removing and reapplying the same strip). I then was able to use the silicone lapping film starting at 9 and worked down to .05, then stropped with 1 and 0.5.
 
1500 and 2000 grit aluminum oxide wet dry sand paper works GREAT following the 1k diamond stone! In my opinion it's way better and faster then the ceramics. I used Scotch 3/4" double sided poster tape that fits the paddles perfectly AND you can remove the sandpaper strip and apply a new one without needing new tape(I didn't need a new strip of sandpaper I just experimented by removing and reapplying the same strip). I then was able to use the silicone lapping film starting at 9 and worked down to .05, then stropped with 1 and 0.5.
 
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