Hey evert... I commend you for posting here first and asking questions before you just go out and start buying stuff (like I have done far too often lol). I hope I can be of some help to you.
I have owned the EP apex, EP Pro, and now have the WEPS. I will start off letting you know that by far my favorite system was the EP Pro. I hope to give you positives and negatives of both systems, that I didn't see when I looked after the fact. (I know you are probably considering just the apex or the WE, but I will also put some info in here about the Pro too so you can keep it in the back of your mind... hope i'm not getting off track).
EP Apex: This is an excellent system for the money ($150 +/-) and it carries a lifetime transferable warranty. I always got A+ service from Ben anytime I had a question and they are spot on when it comes to shipping stuff to you, even though they are based out of oregon. I never had to make good on any part whatsoever of the warranty on the Apex or the Pro. I won't re-post this in the pro section, just give you a couple of benefits over the apex.
Edge Pro Apex
Benefits:
- You are correct in that longer flexible blades are not an issue. I have even done a sword on mine, lol, although I wouldn't recommend doing it very often, its a pain!
- You can get very precise angles, arguably even more precise than the WE when you use both a drill stop collar and an angle cube.
- I could re-hone a straight razor no problem on the Apex (or Pro) no problem
- I believe the angle (Ben Dale - owner can answer this to be sure) on the EP goes down to around 8-9 degrees per side. But like I said, don't quote me on this.
- Although the stock wet stones do wear a lot quicker, I actually liked the 120 stock stone on the EP over the 50 grit diamond stone on the WE for re-profiling something. For some reason, it seems to work quicker.
Cons:
- Stones wear and you have to flatten them pretty often. The courser stones wear a lot faster than the finer grit ones because you use them a lot more heavily to re-profile blades when they are really dull or damaged. Heavy use on a 120 you will have to flatten around every 4-5 knives. Your 1000 grit would be fine every 20-30 probably.
- The 2 small suction cups that hold the apex to the table tend to slide around after you have been using the water on the wet-stones for a while... its kinda a pain because you have to re-adjust every so often.
- When changing stones out its slightly more involved (although not much) than the WE or the Pro (you have to unscrew the knob vs. it being spring loaded on the Pro).
- Can't do scissors/chisels, etc.
- You are also correct in that it is easier to scratch the side of your blade while sharpening... this is due to the slurry from the stone, water, and steel that will get on your blade as you slide it along to sharpen it on the blade table. Ben recommends using a piece of masking tape on the blade, which partially works, but after a short while, it does get water underneath it and starts coming up. It does work pretty well though. I sharpened a bunch of collector knives on it and was real careful and never had any issues.
- Neither the pro or this one can do ceramic knives... trust me, I've tried. I purchased the two diamond stones the EP sells for ceramic knives along with the diamond tape. They don't put near high enough of a polish on the edge to get it to shave hair.
Alright, on to the WEPS - I love the concept of the WEPS. It is a BEAUTIFUL concept and I like the idea of locking your blade in a vise and sharpening both sides at the same time. Cost is comparible to the apex (maybe just slightly more). This also comes with a lifetime warranty. From what I hear Clay is very supportive any time you need something and even on these forums from time to time... I haven't had to ask him any questions yet. I have had to cash in on the warranty once already, and am about to a second time. The vise (which is made out of aluminum) bent on me... twice. To their credit they sent me another one in the mail right away and I didn't have to pay a dime (that was the second one I bent, haven't called them yet - it didn't bend as bad as the first one). Also, when I was sharpening my first knife one of the retaining pins that holds the guide rod that the stones slide over fell out...kinda surprised me.
Benefits:
- It is theoretically quicker, although I haven't gotten good enough yet on it to be quicker than I was on my EP. I believe this because it is much quicker to change stones out, you don't have to change the knife from hand to hand and rotate blade sides, etc. I believe you can get a lot more strokes per side in a shorter amount of time once you get good.
- It is a lot cleaner than the EP since it doesn't use any water... I will say that it still makes a mess sort of though, when you are sharpening a really dull knife with the 50 or 80 grit stone... it will get diamond dust all over whatever table you are using.
- Easier to be consistent since the blade is locked in a vise.
- Don't have to flatten the stones if you get the diamond stones.
- Clay is coming out with a scissor/serrated attachment so you can sharpen scissors and serrated blades within the next month or two.
- You can do ceramic knives on this system if you get the diamond stones and sprays on the strops.
- You CAN do the long thin blades... to an extent. My WE came with an attachment that is basically a thin rod with a notch cut out of it that fits in the base of the WE and will support the tip of your knife so it won't flex. I have sharpened up a fillet knife nicely with this.
Cons:
- 50 and 80 grit stones don't cut very fast (I have tried light to heavy pressure... neither work very well, heavier was better though when trying to remove metal fast. They say not to be heavy handed with diamonds, but on the 50 grit stone on a blade, I put a little more pressure into it. Nothing crazy mind you, not enough to move the mounting table much).
- There seems to be a lot of play in the system... between the guide rod joints (that go on the degree bar at the base) and the the stone paddles (which are slightly too big for the guide rods). It seems to be a couple of degrees difference (2-3 degrees at my best estimation, but I could be wrong).
- The knobs that attach the guide rods to the degree bar tend to loosen up pretty often while sharpening... it is really annoying.
- There is a degree limitation, which is around 15 degrees. Like mentioned above, this can partially be gotten around, but only with certain types of blades. When you watch Clay's video on him sharpening a straight razor, you notice that he is not clamping the straight razor in the center of the blade like he does on most knives... he is clamping it at the part of the blade nearest the base, so that way the actual edge sticks out in front of the vise. He then rotates the guide rod bases forward to be able to get the guide rod arms in front of the vise to allow for a more narrow angle. What you have to watch out for is actually shaving off some of your vise as you sharpen when you are trying to get near the heel of your knife. So what I am trying to say, is that for most knives, you won't be able to get less than 15 degrees.
- I have not been able to do straight razors on this (and I have sharpened several on the EP and shave with one, so I know what I'm doing)... Clay and others (like above) say you can... but clay never shows how sharp it is at the end of the video. You remember in the point just above this one where I told you that you can rotate the guide rod base forward so that way you can lower the degrees? Well, the problem with this is that when you do this and hone your straight razor, the degree angle actually changes in mid stroke. ( I will try to take a vid or pics of what I am talking about - its hard to explain). It is not designed to be tilted forward like this and still be smooth. It is very hard to work with when it is forward. Theoretically you can put an EXCELLENT edge on a straight razor because of the amount of strokes you can do in a short amount of time per side, thus removing all of the previous scratch pattern with each successive grit. I did purchase all the way up through the .125 cubic boron nitride strops from WE.
- The plastic on the stone paddles actually sticks out so that I have had some issues (like on my para 2) getting all the way back to the heel (or almost the return) of the edge...
- Am I keeping my WE? Yeah, cuz I already have it and I like the idea better than the EP, even though I think the EP is much better built. So what have I done to fix some of these issues? 1. I got a local metal fabrication shop to make me an exact replica of the the vise out of hardened A2 tool steel. =D Haven't gotten it in yet, will try to post up some of my mods on this forum in the near future. 2. I have the same metal fabrication shop making me some attachments that will attach on the degree bar that will fix my straight razor problem (will have to show you a pic later to explain). 3. I used some .010" thick phosphorus bronze washers to re-inforce the joints on the guide rod arms. This tightened up the tolerances considerably. 4. I took some of the stone paddles to my belt sander and shaved the plastic sides down some so they don't get in the way. The metal fabrications I'm having done aren't cheap...
I'm sure that Wicked Edge would give me my money back if I wanted it... but I just decided to keep it and go with it. I like the idea better than the EP, if I can get it working properly.
On to the EP Pro - The quality and craftsmanship of this is phenominal. It is a couple hundred more than the Apex, but TOTALLY worth it in my opinion (if you are going to be sharpening a good bit of knives or just have the money =). I sharpened around 300 knives or so on mine before I thought the "grass was greener on the other side" and converted over to the WE =) I sold my Pro on ebay (unfortunately). I never had any warranty issues at all on this system.
Benefits:
- This thing is STURDY... it uses a Panavise to lock it down to the counter/table top... you will literally be able to lift your table up holding nothing but your Pro! You will not have the same issues as the Apex where it will slide around... the Pro won't do this, it is locked in. (you can do an "upgrade" and actually convert your WE into using a panavise as well).
- You can purchase a scissor attachment which works awesomely.
- Changing stones out is a little easier.
- This uses EP's patented ramp system which slows the wear down on your stones and uses the whole stone to sharpen vs. just the middle of the stone like the Apex.
- I believe (if I am not mistaken) the degrees goes a little lower than the Apex... not sure, you will have to check on this.
Cons:
- There aren't any really... other than that it is a hand/manual system that does take a while to use over the electric systems (i.e. belt sander & paper wheels). I would definitely recommend getting a stop collar (which will give you precision, around $8-10) for the EP. An angle cube is great too (around $30).
Ok, now that that is done I want to say one last thing... don't get too carried away with the "high grit" stones unless you have a specific purpose (i.e. straight razors and hair shears). These will create a mirror edge, but it is NOT practical for EDC (every day carry) purposes (i.e. cutting rope, plastic, cloth, etc.). A highly polished edge has a very specific purpose... to push cut. A toothier edge is much more efficient at most purposes we would use them for because it has, in essence, micro serrations that will really "bite" into whatever you are cutting. That being said, one of my favorite edges is the 220 grit water stone on the EP and the 400 grit diamond stone on the WE. These will both still shave the hair right off of your arm but really bite into whatever you are cutting big time.
I'm not trying to bad-mouth anyone... I am simply giving my honest opinion on all of these sharpeners. I wish I had come across some of these things sooner.
Hope this helps bro... Have a good one. Pm or email with any more questions and I'll try to help you out.
