Wicked edge or traditional water stones

So there's a lot to reply to in this thread, sorry for the giant post.

Bumblingtinkerer said:
It took me a long time to learn to sharpen well on stones. But it was worth it. Now I feel comfortable sharpening even my most expensive knives on stones. Get a Wicked Edge and love it, but I suggest learning to sharpen as well. May not always have a fancy sharpening doohickey out in the sticks. I've had to sharpen my knives in the woods away from sharpeners, and I did it on a truck window and stropped it on my boot and it shaved. It's a valuable skill. Best of luck in whatever you do-- Tink
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I think there is a misconception here that using a Wicked Edge(WE from here on out) means that you don't need to understand how to sharpen. The WE is great but if you don't know how to sharpen then its just an expensive paper weight. Just as with freehand sharpening there is a technique to using it and you need to understand what you are doing and what you are trying to achieve. The main thing the WE does is to remove the human element from setting and maintaining an angle. What results you are able to obtain will still depend on a proper use of the tool and your technique. And for those times when you are out in the sticks there's a portable version of the WE, the Field and Sport. :D

bpeezer said:
I learned how to sharpen from watching youtube videos and practicing on some old stones my uncle gave me. The Wicked Edge takes a lot of the guess work out of the equation, but there is no substitute for a good understanding of what sharpening does and what "sharp" really is.
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Again, just because you have a WE doesn't mean that you can ignore what sharpening is. And what is "sharp" can be very difficult to define without some empirical data. What I define as sharp and what you define as sharp are relative without a way to test and data to compare. Coincidentally this is something else that Clay has been working on, he has a sharpness testing rig, and posting about in the WE forums.

Redmasta said:
Ive been looking at the wicked edge but what worries me is some photos of knives Ive seen sharpened on it have very uneven bevels. The bevel is super thick near the tip and thinner near the heal. Seems you really have to be careful how you clamp the knife to avoid this.

I assume when sharpening freehand this isn't as much of an issue....but the learning curve is much greater...
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This is almost always due to improper placement in the clamp. It is also very easily avoided by using a Sharpie and coloring in the bevel and then doing a few light strokes to see if you are evenly and consistently removing the marker. Its very easy to determine if the knife is in the correct place or if it needs to be moved.

Blaketho said:
Yeah i looked at the pro kit and for what its got its a lot better than the basic one just because it has a better range of stones and strops and it comes with the base even though making one wouldn't be too hard. I actually sold some stuff on ebay and managed to save up the $390. now its a matter of getting the WE or getting some nice Chosera waterstones. It just seems like the WE is more convenient but requires more setup. Although the am drawn to the "zen" of the waterstones and traditional sharpening style. But like you im too afraid to use my expensive knives
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I made a base for my setup. It can save a few bucks. I went to a place that does marble counter tops and got a scrap piece from them. The only tricky part was drilling the holes. But you can also get a piece of dense wood like oak or cherry and just put some good rubber feet on it. The main purpose for the base is to keep the unit from sliding around. Because you shouldn't be pushing very hard it doesn't take much wait to accomplish that.

As far as setup, usually the first time you do a knife it takes a bit of setup to find the right placement and to ensure you have the right angles. The more knives you do, the easier this becomes as you start to get a sense of where to place them in the clamp and what your angles are. But for each and every subsequent sharpening all you have to do is put it back in the same place. The WE is extremely repeatable. There are three things you need to know to put the knife back into the clamp in the same place, depth in the clamp (top or bottom holes), tip position as measured by the ruler and angle of the arms. To make it easy there's a handy place to record that info in the back of the manual. There's also a list on the WE forums, I think in a Google doc spreadsheet, that you can reference.

SteelStickler said:
I did basically this progression of "get guided and practice freehand" using an edgepro and one of heavyhanded's washboard systems. The washboard gives extra feedback using an acrylic plate that's gridded that you tack wet/dry sandpaper and computer paper loaded with compound over. It really helped me to get a feel for following the bevel heel-to-tip, and also provides a really nice stropping substrate for regular maintanence. It's less than $50 and would be a nice supplement to the WE or whatever other guided setup you choose.

I found on my edge pro that doing touchups was sort of a PITA when i had to get the system out, mechanically match the edge angle, strop, and put everything away. I imagine dealing with a clamp would add more time to the process. The washboard (or any other freehand strop) allows you to learn the muscle memory and body mechanics of following the perfect bevel that you put on with your guided system in significantly less time than using the guided system itself. That not only helps to refine your freehand technique but also makes you more likely to do regular edge maintenance, which should stretch out the intervals between needing to crack out the "big guns," so to speak.

Whatever you choose, I'd encourage you to look into a strop of some kind, and I'd personally recommend checking out the washboard system because it provides such positive feedback to let you know when you're on the flat of the bevel and when you're riding to high or low.

Enjoy the foray into sharpening and may the unicorn of "sharp enough" grace your blades often!

(I'm not in any way associated with heavyhanded outside of being a very satisfied customer!)
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This is one of the major advantages to the WE over the Edge Pro. The system is repeatable. Once you know where to place the knife touch ups are easy. I've tested this with several of my knives. I make sure to record the settings very accurately in the manual, because I'm a bit obsessive I'm using an angle cube, and after using the knife for a while I put it back in the clamp according to my settings. Its worked exactly as advertised on several knives.

I don't know what it takes to "setup" your equipment so I can't speak to that. What I can say is that for me its very easy to pull out the WE, slide on some high grit stones, ceramics or strops, stick a knife in the clamp according to its recorded settings and make a few passes on each side to quickly touch up a knife.
 
TalentedMrRipley said:
Again, just because you have a WE doesn't mean that you can ignore what sharpening is. And what is "sharp" can be very difficult to define without some empirical data. What I define as sharp and what you define as sharp are relative without a way to test and data to compare. Coincidentally this is something else that Clay has been working on, he has a sharpness testing rig, and posting about in the WE forums.
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I never said that having the wicked edge means that you can ignore what sharpening is. I was trying to say that even if he gets the wicked edge, he will still have to read and learn about sharpening.
 
Blaketho said:
Yeah i looked at the pro kit and for what its got its a lot better than the basic one just because it has a better range of stones and strops and it comes with the base even though making one wouldn't be too hard. I actually sold some stuff on ebay and managed to save up the $390. now its a matter of getting the WE or getting some nice Chosera waterstones. It just seems like the WE is more convenient but requires more setup. Although the am drawn to the "zen" of the waterstones and traditional sharpening style. But like you im too afraid to use my expensive knives
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The wicked edge field and sport pro is $ 410 and I believe includes the pro pack 2 stuff.
 
So I've looked at some of the Norton combo waterstones 220/1000 and 4000/8000 grit is that good enough for sharpening? Id also get a strop and some honing compound for it.

At this point though with all the maintenance for waterstones and keeping them flat and everything it almost seems like the wicked edge would work better because from 100 grit to 1600 and finishing with a strop it gets a mirror edge, whereas I don't know if you need to get a ceramic or anything after an 8000 waterstone. In theory though an 8000 will be more polished than the WE 1600 and then stropping would mirror it.

Any thoughts?
 
Magnumfloyd said:
The wicked edge field and sport pro is $ 410 and I believe includes the pro pack 2 stuff.
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Can you mount that on something fixed? it looks like that rectangular bottom piece is a different version completely and has to be clamped to something
 
Blaketho said:
Can you mount that on something fixed? it looks like that rectangular bottom piece is a different version completely and has to be clamped to something
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The F&S is a different base and clamp. Its designed so that you can use the included c-clamp to affix it to whatever's handy, tree branch, truck tail gate, picnic table. The other thing to know is the the clamp itself is different. The standard clamp has two sets of holes in the side and comes with a tool to set the depth in the clamp to one or the other set of holes. The F&S just has a notch machined in it and therefore only one fixed depth. It works but the standard clamp is better in my opinion. Unless you really need the portability of the F&S I'd get the standard setup. You could always make a portable base for it if need be. The base on the standard clamp is just held on my 2 machine screws. You could make something to go on it that was small and clampable to flat surfaces just like the F&S.
 
I just picked up a Wicked Edge Pro Pack II last night with Kangaroo strops and Naniwa Chosera 5000,10,000 stones. But needless to say, I have a lot of learning to do. Thanks for all the valuable info. Hopefully I won't ruin any of my CRK's.
 
Blaketho said:
So you'd say get a WE and then grab a strop and get the technique down and later on try with stones? where abouts can I get the strops?
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You can find out more about the Washboard strop SteelStickler mentions by following the link in my signature below. There's a complete text description of what it is and how it works, plus a handful of short videos showing how to use it. Works great as a strop, and also works great using silicon carbide sandpaper (included) or lapping film (aluminum oxide, silicon carbide, diamond), in a very real sense it can do all your freehand sharpening from coarse to fine (is all I normally use any more). Gives a big jump in tactile feedback which is the most important aspect of freehand sharpening to learn, no matter what tools you're using. Used as a strop it also doubles as a fine hone - unlike most strops, it can repair damage and refine the edge while maintaining a very flat bevel/apex. Am currently out of stock but will have more in a week or so.

Martin

Edit to add: there is no option out there that will work better in the long run than learning to freehand no matter what tools you settle on - no substitute for owning the process and the results, and being able to work with whatever is at hand.
 
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I would get a medium grit (1000) grit waterstone, that way your not removing hunks of metal in a hurry, and it wont break the bank, and work on your technique from there, too coarse of a stone starting out and the risk of ruining your blades is real, but with say a 1,000 grit , your going to haft to work at it a little more and you have more room for mistakes, I have an edge pro and I love it, however , I have gotten away from it, as others have said, theres something about being able to sharpen your blades anytime on anything if your in a pinch, nothing wrong with guided systems , but IMO freehanded sharpening will give you a since of accomplishment the WEPS or EP cannot give you.
 
Personally learning how to sharpen my knives using a bench stone has benefited me greatly. This is a skill once you learn it it becomes second nature to you. It makes you respect your tools (yer knives) even more and as a bonus ya get a sense of self accomplishment. And you know you can always carry a stone with you into the field and take care of business out there. Again that's just my 2 cents worth.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Edit to add: there is no option out there that will work better in the long run than learning to freehand no matter what tools you settle on - no substitute for owning the process and the results, and being able to work with whatever is at hand.
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I agree 100% with HeavyHanded's statement. You may one day find yourself needing to sharpen a knife, and all you have is river rock or a car window. With the correct freehand skills, you can get it done. Murray Carter once used a cement block and a newspaper. The question that you have to ask yourself is how long are you willing to wait before you have "honed" you skills to the point of getting your knives as sharp as you want them for the purposes that you will be using them. I do not know the washboard system at all, so I have no comment. I will note that feedback is essential in learning to freehand sharpen. For me, the WE was a good addition to my system, but it is also an expensive one. Like I said, mine will be for sale one day. But not until I have the proper mastery of freehand sharpening. Even then, re-profiling a blade would be far easier on a WE than trying to grind off a lot of material freehand, but IMHO, freehand is the way to go. I like the H2O stones for all of the reasons that Mr. Carter talks about, but anything that will scratch steel will sharpen a knife. Keep us posted with which way you decide to go.
 
^^agreed. Once you "get it" you'll be able to sharpen your knives with almost anything. Stones, sand paper, underside of a ceramic dish, stone stairs, whatever.
All those sharpening systems can help you with consistency, but ultimately I feel that they are crutches.

That said, I am not the greatest sharpener but ! if you give a me totally dull knife and any stone, I promise I can get it to a useful sharpness. Not polished-edge, push-cutting TP, shave-a-moskitos-pubic-hair sharp, but useable.A skill that might come in handy under less-than-optimal conditions.

If you don't care about that and just want sharp knives, go with the system sharpeners-nothing wrong with that. For quick and easy touch-ups I recommend the Lansky turnbox or Spyderco Sharpmaker.

BTW if you are afraid of messing up the factory angle, just cover the edge with a sharpie. That way you can see if you are removing metal in the right place.
 
Check into the wicked edge and a set of norton combo water stones (looks like a 220/1000 & 1000/4000 or 1000/8000 can be had for around 100-110 bucks with the option of a 4000/8000 combo for around $60 later.)

Im in colorado as well and am getting a wicked edge but need something to tide me over until I can get thr pro pack 2 and the Norton option is what im going with.
 
Learned a lot about sharpening by using the WE as it is easy to see what you are actually doing to the edge while you are doing it including making mistakes and correcting them.
 
Magnumfloyd said:
The wicked edge field and sport pro is $ 410 and I believe includes the pro pack 2 stuff.
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I, too, am inept at freehand sharpening and am considering the WE as a purchase to utilize while I learn the art of freehand (which is challenging as I have small children and time to devote to any hobby is limited at this point). *However, I'm grappling with the choice between the Field and Sport Pro and the Pro Pack I. *I'm not prepared to drop the big $$ for the Pro Pack II, so the Field and Sport Pro is appealing because it includes the upgraded arms. *I also like that it's portable and comes with a case as I may travel with it from time to time. *I realize that the clamp may be less desirable than the standard model, but without laying eyes on it I'm not sure how much I'd be giving up there. *I'd also have to buy a set of strops if I go with the field model (which is included with the Pro Pack I). *Any thoughts? *My knives are getting duller by the day here. *
 
Hello Blaketho, Welcome to the board. Do not limit yourself to just the W.E. You may want to consider looking at the Edge Pro Professional. I am not saying that you should buy either one. Just look at more options than just the Wicked Edge. I also agree learning freehand is a great idea.
 
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