Wife's New Trail Gun, S & W "Governor" and "Guide's Choice" Holster

RatDrall,

Please note the title of this thread, Wife's New Trail Gun. I do not think the Governor is the best "do it all" gun out there. I do think it is ideal as a trail gun / backpacking gun for the woods or her riding her horse. Due to its size I would not recommend it for a CCW. We both carry Colt Commanders for that purpose. For home defense I think the best option is a 12 gauge shotgun.

There are a number of other holsters out there that fit this revolver. The reason we went with this one is that it can comfortably be worn while wearing a pack and it provides very good protection / retention while out hiking.

If I could redesign this gun I would gladly shorten the cylinder to the length of a .45 Colt while retaining the ability to shoot .45 ACP and replace the extra cylinder length with barrel. Unfortunately this is not an option.

This gun is very easy to shoot. If you get the chance to try one out it might surprise you.

Stitch
 
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Nice rig. Been thinking about ordering one of those for a 4" M57. Honestly, I have other guns that it would be a great rig for, but those are not cheap holsters. One will have to be enough.
 
Thanks for the compliment. I would like to get one for my .44 Automag and .357 Colt Python, but we settled on getting this holster for the Govenors since the biggest threat in our area is black bears.

snip
Gilbert woman attacked by bear while walking dog in Pinetop
by John Genovese and Connor Radnovich - Jun. 29, 2011 01:28 PM
The Arizona Republic-12 News Breaking News Team

A Gilbert woman was attacked by a black bear Tuesday evening while walking her dog in Pinetop, the Arizona Game and Fish Department reported.

The woman, 61-year-old Lana Hollingsworth, was airlifted to Scottsdale Healthcare Osborn Medical Center and underwent surgery. She is in stable but serious condition, officials said.
snip

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...oman-bear-attack-abrk29-ON.html#ixzz1fDh4vMDs

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Stitch,

Thanks for posting. You are showing a solution for your situation and should be commended for sharing it with us. People who have differing solutions are free to post theirs in THEIR THREAD. It is irritating even for me to read some of those comments. Anyway thanks to you I have a guide's choice holster for my SW 41 mag in the mail as I type.
 
HornyToad,
Thank you for your support. Those S&W .41 Mags are very nice revolvers. In my opinion it is a very underappreciated, yet very capable round. The holster will be very tight when you put your gun into it for the first few times. It will loosen up a little with use and becomes much easier.
Stitch
 
Very nice rig! I like the holster very much. It looks bulky in the picture, because it has to be. Governors are bulky guns. Which is part of what makes them so cool. They're big, intimidating, beastly cannons that handle nicely, are quite versatile, and are a lot of fun to shoot. I love mine. I got mine partly for the same reason as the OP, because it's a lightweight Smith revolver that handles .45ACP and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I also just love the way it looks. Not every gun purchase has to be a cold, methodical analysis of the ideal weapon, firing the optimum ammunition for an idealized situation. Just like knives, guns are a personal thing that appeal for various reasons outside of logic. Some guns are just a little bit gonzo and fun.
 
Show me another S&W revolver with a scandium frame that shoots, .45 GAP, .45 ACP, .45 Schofield & .45 Colt with a MSRP of $640.00? I have never once advocated the .410 for defense. The Mountain Gun in .45Colt does not shoot .45 ACP. The 325 TR, .45 ACP, lists for $1289.00 and it does not shoot .45 Colts.

We were doing head shots yesterday @ 15 yards on an IDPA target with .45 ACP 200 gr LSWC, .45 ACP 230 gr XTPs & .45Colt 250 gr grain XTPs. In my opinion this would handle any threat.

Some folks get all kinda irrational when thinking about these types of handguns. Versatility is an awesome thing, and I can't think of another handgun with this kind of versatility.

Just consider the possibilities in .410. Lots of folks dis the gun's capabilities as a defensive handgun if loaded with, say, 2.5" 000 buckshot. But let's do the numbers.

Federal makes a loading specifically for this type of handgun stoked with four 000 pellets. 000 pellets are typically .36 caliber, so six rounds of 2.5" Federal 000 buck equals 24 rounds of .36 cal. ammo. Now, there aren't any modern handguns I am aware of that are chambered for .36 caliber, but there are quite a few which are chambered for .32, or .380. A typical .32 ACP round has a bullet weighing in at 70-75 grains. The typical .380 round has a bullet weighing in at around 90-95 grains.

A .36 caliber 000 pellet weighs about 70 grains. I'm pretty certain that the velocity of a load of 000 buck out of a Governor or a Taurus would be equal to, or greater than the velocity of a bullet from a typical .32ACP or .380 ACP mousegun.

So think about .410 000 buck for just a moment..... would most folks say that a 24 round .32ACP or .380 handgun would be inadequate for self defense? Sure, there are lots of handguns of comparable size on the market which are chambered for larger calibers.... but this handgun is also chambered for larger calibers!!! That same 24 round .32 revolver is also able to handle stout .45LC and .45ACP loads, IN ADDITION to being able to handle small shot loads for small game hunting. Just think about having a 24 shot .32ACP or .380 handgun that could also shoot .45LC and .45ACP!

If one sat down and tried to figure out all the various loadings this one handgun would be capable of firing, the combinations are astronomical.

I recently handled a Governor, and while it is larger than my Taurus PD, I would still love to have one. I've been dropping heavy hints to my wife and I doubt it will happen, but this handgun has been added to my short list of "want really really bad" handguns.

Andy
 
^

I get all that, but what I haven't been able to get across is that there is more to a handgun than velocity, energy, group size, etc.

You're right about the .410 revolver being capable of pushing a 230 grain bullet at impressive velocity, what I'm saying is that there are better ways to go about it.

Start by defining what you want - a 230 grain pill coming out of a tube at 900 fps to defend yourself against bears or badguys or whatever. Now that we know what the goal is, how do you best go about doing that?

It's not going to be the humungous 5 round shotgun pistol that is the size of the torso of whoever will be carrying it, not when there are less expensive, lighter, more ergonomic, higher capacity, lower recoiling, easier to shoot ways of doing the same thing, that don't require an exotic $200 holster.

You could do it with a Glock 36, Glock 30, Glock 21, Glock 21 SlimFrame, Sig P220, 1911A1, S&W 624, S&W 24, etc. and any one of those would be better for the job than the .410 revolver, and you could carry them in a $50 kydex or leather holster on a belt.




Most people's theory overrules the facts. You have a theory that the Governer is ideal for a situation, in spite of the fact that it is bigger, less convenient, holds fewer rounds, is harder to shoot, etc. than needed to do the same thing. Either we are both here to have a discussion, or we are both internet gun commandos using theories instead of facts. I'll go with the former, I think this is a good discussion with everyone bringing their own experiences to the table.

Again, I'm glad that the Governer works for you, but anyone looking to do similar might want to shop around a bit longer.

We can agree that your setup looks like it will work for what you want it for. What is being pointed out is that you had to go out of your way to make an exotic gun work by puchasing an exotic holster, exotic ammunition, and extra training when there are better solutions for the task at hand.

Enjoy your setup, I do think it's pretty cool, and you definately found ways to make it work for you. Not to mention that you've trained and tested it and found the gun/holster/ammo adequate :)

I own or have owned many of the guns you have listed above, and carried them too, and reloaded for them. Nonetheless, almost any firearm is just a compromise of many factors.

A versatile handgun is one which can be pressed into use for many purposes. A revolver chambered in .410 and .45LC/.45ACP which is also accurate is a handgun that can shoot so many different types of loads it nearly boggles the mind.

If I want to hunt rabbits or squirrel, it can do it either with low velocity lead bullets or with shot loads. If I want to carry it as a backup gun to a rifle when hog hunting, I can do it. If I want to shoot an IDPA mach with it, I can do it. If I want to put it in my truck in a BOB because of its ability to eat a ton of different types of ammo, I can do it. If I want to carry it on my person or in my vehicle loaded for self defense, it's up to the job. If I want to use it for an afternoon's informal plinking, especially if I handload, I can do it, and all with the same gun!!!

Pick any other single handgun on the market today, and tell me one that can do all of those things. I could buy a .45 Glock or 1911, but they won't do all that a Governor can do. I could buy a big bore revolver like a 629 or a 624, but they won't do all that a Governor can do. I don't care what other handgun you choose, it won't do all the things a Governor can do.

You might say, "Well, I can handload .45 to shoot shot loads!" Well yeah, you could, but why spend the time to do that when you can just buy .410 right off the shelf?

You might say, "Well, I can hunt rabbits with my 1911!" Well, yeah, you could, but how easy is it to hit a running rabbit at 20 feet, and how safe is it to shoot a 230gr. slug in the air at a squirrel?

You might say, "Well, I can hunt rabbits with my .22!" Well, yeah, you could, but would you want to defend yourself from a robber with a .22, or take down a 250 lb. hog with a .22?

The Governor is certainly small enough to carry for self defense if one wanted to. I've carried similar or larger guns in that role. Especially if the hammer were bobbed, which is what I would do if I bought one.

For versatility, this gun is the bomb. There simply isn't anything else on the market right now which compares. And it would seem that it has the quality and the reliability one would expect from S&W.

Frankly, most of the naysayers I have encountered on this subject are folks who haven't ever personally tried this type of handgun. Which is a shame, as they have a lot to offer.

Andy
 
I was not going to give any input here, but reading a lot of what has been written has made me rethink my position. I make my living in "interesting" parts of the world (I am writing this from Iraq). I have been in 7 different conflicts, ranging from Central America to Africa to the Middle East. To put it bluntly, there's a lot of crap being put forth here. I read people saying that the .410 is no good as a defensive round. Interesting. If that's the case, would you like to stand in front of one while it's being fired? I think not. Try shooting a .410 round...any .410 round...at a target at 7 yards. Check out the pattern of the shot. I agree that the .45 Colt or .45 ACP is a great round for defensive purposes, for both two and four-legged critters, better than the .410 in most instances. But the versatility of this revolver amazes me. I plan on getting one myself in the near future. Bulky? Yes. Worth the extra weight and bulk? Yes, to me, to have a single handgun that can do so much.

I apologize for stepping on any toes here, but the fact of the reality of terminal ballistics effects of projectiles on soft tissue go far beyond what a lot of armchair experts believe. Believe me, you don't want to get shot with anything...even a lowly .22LR!

My apologies! My rant is over now.

Best Regards,
Ron
 
I'll never understand why anyone would buy one of these, UNLESS they encountered snakes on a daily basis. Would you carry a .410 Shotgun into battle? How about for home defense? No on both....well why would you carry a .410 pistol with a rifled barrel that is too short to effectively handle a threat? Sure, you can keep your .45LC in it all day, but then again, why not buy a Smith actaully made for that?

One reason I am so interested in the Governor is because of its ability to handle .45ACP and moonclips. I have a 625 Mountain Gun in .45ACP. It has a 4" barrel. Although it has a round butt, it has a high front sight and adjustable rear, and a full target hammer. It's all stainless and not at all what I would consider to be a compact revolver. The Governor has a shorter barrel and it is scandium, so somewhat lighter than the 625. It also has fixed sights, and while the hammer is a target hammer, it could be bobbed back to make the weapon more comfortable for concealed carry. The option of reloading using moonclips is very appealing to me having shot my 625 in competition. Reloading the Governor rapidly either at need or because one simply wants to stoke the gun with a different type of ammunition simply adds to its value, IMO. The MSRP on a similar 625 new is well over $1000 and used ones are scarce as hen's teeth, and as much as I like my 625, it (again) just can't do everything the Governor can do.

Andy
 
Andy,
Thanks again for your logical points.
Stitch

My pleasure. I simply get a little irritated when people expound their beliefs based on no experience with the weapon. Additionally, there is still a lot of old/out of date information about how these guns perform without taking newly available ammunition into account.

My Judges perform rather dismally shooting standard, traditional .410 ammo which was designed for use in longer barreled shotguns. The new loads developed specifically for these handguns perform far better with much greater accuracy and tighter shot patterns at longer distances. If anyone is still basing their opinions about these handguns because of what they read back when the Judges were first introduced, it's time to re-assess, re-evaluate and re-educate.

Andy
 
Neat Gun...I wish it would handle .454 Casull too.
I like something a little hotter if in Bear territory.
 
To put it bluntly, there's a lot of crap being put forth here. I read people saying that the .410 is no good as a defensive round. Interesting. If that's the case, would you like to stand in front of one while it's being fired? I think not. Try shooting a .410 round...any .410 round...at a target at 7 yards. Check out the pattern of the shot. I agree that the .45 Colt or .45 ACP is a great round for defensive purposes, for both two and four-legged critters, better than the .410 in most instances. Ron

By that logic, a slingshot is an adequate self-defense tool because there are not many people who would willing stand in front of it to be shot by one. I've also been in plenty of dangerous places, both for military and civilian reasons, but that doesnt make me an expert on .410 ballistics (hint, because we dont employ a .410 in our US arsenal). All I know is what Ive read, like the Box-O-Truth test on the Judge, or the FBI ballistics report on the .410. IN those peoples expert opinions, the .410 round is extremely poor for self-defense, no matter how you load it, esp. out of a short barreled rifled revolver.

The Governor is very versatile in it's loadings, and if you can shoot it well and kill what you are aiming to kill, more power to you. But for those touting the lowly .410 as a good self-defense round, stop.
 
Glockfire, we also don't include the .45 GAP, the .44 magnum, or most of any of the high-power rifle cartridges in our government arsenals. Does that make them ineffective for personal defense? And your comment on the slingshot is ludicrous, at best. I commend you on your service to our country, both in the military and as a civilian, sir. I am making no claims as to being an "expert."

Reference the photos for the Box-of-Truth test: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot53_4.htm

The assumption that it did not meet the FBI standards of penetration are correct. However, as I stated above, would you have wanted to be hit with any of the pellets/shot that did hit these targets? Not the handgun I might choose as my primary CCH, but nothing to turn your nose up at either.

Regards,
Ron
 
All I know is what Ive read, like the Box-O-Truth test on the Judge, or the FBI ballistics report on the .410. IN those peoples expert opinions, the .410 round is extremely poor for self-defense, no matter how you load it, esp. out of a short barreled rifled revolver.

The Governor is very versatile in it's loadings, and if you can shoot it well and kill what you are aiming to kill, more power to you. But for those touting the lowly .410 as a good self-defense round, stop.


And that's just the point, right? You only know what you've read, you haven't tried the weapon for yourself. And the other point is that the Governor (and the Taurus Judge, although lacking the .45ACP option) are two of the most versatile handguns on the market because they can shoot .410 loads AND large bore centerfire handgun cartridges.

Folks who start badmouthing these handguns start and end with the fact that they shoot .410..... and that perceived "taint" somehow magically spills over to make their performance in these other loadings similarly anemic. Most of the people who dismiss the .410 load from a handgun base their opinion on the old Box of Truth test, which was a valid test for the loads available at that time.

But the ammo has changed, so the results are no longer valid except for the loads tested at that time.

I carry a Taurus PD Judge just about every day both here on the ranch and if I go into more urban settings. I load it with two rounds of Federal .410 000 buck, the load from Federal which was developed just for these types of guns.

Those two rounds equal eight rounds of .36 caliber in two shots. The next three rounds are Hornady's premium 225 grain FTX hollowpoint. This weapon is augmented by a KelTec P32 with 8 rounds of ball .32.

I have carried many other handguns, to include many Glock offerings and several S&W and Ruger revolvers, and many others over the years. But right now, and for the past year, I have carried the Judge. I load it the way I do in anticipation of having to shoot while moving to cover, potentially, and the buckshot loadings increase my chances of a first hit. The .45LC in the remaining three chambers are capable of good penetration out of this gun, even through medium hard cover such as drywall or plywood.

Personally I'm not interested in the kind of penetration required by the FBI, which IMO is rather excessive for civilian purposes. I rarely carry handguns these days which are capable of that kind of penetration, for reasons of practicality and for reasons of liability. Full-sized handguns aren't much fun to conceal in the heat of the TX summer; and, I have no desire to flirt with the increased possibility of over penetration.

But the .410/bigbore guns offer so much more. With this same gun I can tramp the woods and pastures of my property with my six dogs and know that if I have to kill a rattler before it bites, or put down a sick or rabid varmint before it infects me or my dogs, I can do it handily with this platform with the gun loaded with birdshot and medium velocity lead hand loads. So it can provide service on the trail or on the street.

Last year my FIL (who lives on our property) called me to tell me that there was a good sized raccoon wandering around in the pasture beside their house. This was well after sun up. I grabbed my Judge and hopped in our beefed up electric cart, and ran over there to see. When I got there this big male coon was meandering around a section of the pasture, obviously disoriented and sick, but still able to walk. When it heard me coming it attempted to run towards the creek. Coons often carry rabies, and odd behavior is a symptom of this dread disease.

The pasture I was driving across is rough and the ride was bouncy. The coon was making sure progress towards the creek, and likely safety. The Judge was loaded with three rounds of Federal 000 buck and a couple .45LC lead round nose cartridges. As I approached the coon, bouncing along with my eyeballs jiggling, with the animal less than ten yards from thick brush and safety, I fired the Judge one-handed, double action, from about 20 yards and nailed that coon dead with the first shot.

More recently one of these masked invaders entered our front yard to try and make off with one of the chickens which roost in a tree in a corner of the yard. This was at about 4 a.m., full dark. We heard the commotion (chickens can be very loud when someone tries to eat them alive) and I exited the house with Judge and flashlight in hand. The coon heard me coming, climbed down the tree until he was about 6 feet from the ground, then jumped. He hit the ground running and headed for the yard fence about 15 yards from the base of the tree.

With a flashlight in one hand and the Judge (again loaded with Federal buckshot) in the other, I tracked him from the tree towards the fence. Firing one-handed, the first shot was a bit behind him, but the second shot caught him just as he was headed up the fence, and nailed him in place.

Now, what is the moral of these stories? Is it to convince you of the killing power of the .410 000 buckshot loads out of a handgun? No. The moral of the story is that under adverse conditions such as movement or low light or poor shooting platform (one handed shooting), these handguns are capable of increasing hit potential remarkably. I probably could have hit both of those coons eventually with my rail-lighted Glock 19 or 17 or 34; but while my neighbors do live some distance away, I can be sure the buckshot loads I shoot in the middle of the night will not leave my property, while a 9mm slug most certainly will if I happen to send one high.

And further; if I can hit a running coon, one-handed, double action, on the move, at night by flashlight, then I'm pretty certain I could hit a human head at similar distances under similar conditions if I had to.

.410 000 buckshot out of a short-barreled handgun is not capable of great penetration, no. It will kill a coon, but I am certain it will kill a human at close range if I do my part. I KNOW .45LC will do the job that the .410 began, though, if need be. Same for the .45ACP.

I know this was long-winded, but I write these things in the hope that eventually naysayers will start to realize that there are some very good reasons for the choices some folks have made in selecting these types of handguns. I've done the testing, I've shot the guns. I've done penetration tests and I've killed with these weapons. I know the strong points and the limitations. But I've educated myself, rather than rely on out of date internet opinion.

If someone wants to buy a different handgun for similar purposes based on their own experiences, I'm good with that. But I'm here to tell you that the .410/bigbore revolvers such as the Judges and now the Governor are serious handguns capable of doing many things. And I think they are here to stay.

Andy
 
I keep 240 .45 ACP blued steel moonclips loaded, 105 in each of two metal .223 ammo boxes and 15 in each of two food containers for range use. That's 1,440 rounds of 230gr FMJ, aka 'ball ammo', ready to go. But I only had one such revolver - my 4" 625JM. I wanted a bedside .45 ACP revolver - and considered the 325 Night Guard. I was visiting a new gunstore, Birmingham Pistol Wholesale, 6/13, and spied the Governor... then another... he had gotten six several days earlier - no one else could get one. $613 later, including s/t - and over $300 less than the cheapest 325 NG Icould find - I left with the Governor - and my wife, her mouth still wide open. "You spent your Jeep's tire money!?" "Yep...". I would do that again before I finally bought tires - last month!

What I got was very similar to the 325NG. Both have a tritium Night Sight on front, Al/Sc construction, Melonite finish, take moonclipped .45 ACP's, etc - and differ in weight by 1.8 oz! When I got home, I searched S&W Accessories - and had a purpose built S&W/DeSantis belt holder from them in a week - $75! The included 6-slot moonclips were nice - the twofer clips are cute - allow mixing ammo. I've loaded 'snake shot' .410's, 250gr Gold Dot .45 Colts, and .45 ACP ball ammo - interesting possibilities. BTW, the ball ammo and 250gr .45 Colt Gold Dot loads hit coincident POI/POA at 7-12yd. The PDX1 .410 loads hit a tad low. I also swapped the OEM boot grips for the excellent recoil controlling/backstrap covering Hogue/S&W .500 Magnum X-frame grips - fit and function perfectly. Just another happy Governor owner... and, a dyed-in-the-wool S&W revolver guy.

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And, for size comparison, here it is with my EDC 642, a J-frame:
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My regular woods gun was my 625MG in .45 Colt - but the Governor has merit! I also have a 4" 629 (.44 Magnum), should I visit areas with tougher hide threats. All I own are revolvers!

Stainz

PS One caveat re cleaning that Melonite finish. S&W warns against the use of ammoniated solvents - like good old Hoppes #9. That's all I've ever used!!
 
A different set of tests to show the effectiveness of centerfire and shotshells from a S&W Governor:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/08/chris-dumm/gun-review-sw-governor-take-two/

Look closely at the targets.

Regards,
Ron

I found grouping of Winchester and Federal loads to be very similar out of my PD Judge. I also feel that Winchester needs to drop the shot from their PDX load and just add another disk. The shot adds uncertainty to the mix, doesn't stay with the rest of the charge, and isn't necessary.

Andy
 
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