Wilderness Kit vs. Survival Kit

C

CShepherd

Joined
Feb 27, 2006
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Just running with a thought here.

I see the posts of people's various kits and really enjoy those as I am building/tweaking my kits constantly. I began to think how many of them were closer to a wilderness/bushcraft kit then merely a survival kit?

For example I see lots of kits with small hatchets/axes included. To me that moves beyond the realm of merely survival to a tool that is expected to be used a good bit in the woods, therefore part of a wilderness/bushcraft kit. A main fixed blade would also fit in that category as well, especially for me since I'm constantly using a knife when outdoors.

Now I know this brings up the debate of how small/big should a survival kit be and what should be included. For example my PSK is built around the small part of a french mess kit and includes rope, knife, fire, shelter, signalling, food gathering/procuring and first aid. It's considerably bigger than an altoids tin kit but still small enough that I can carry it all the time (I'll try to post pics later). But I do find myself adding to it whenever I'm out with varous items that I know I will use all the time such as more rope, binoculars, hatchet, etc.

Just looking for people's thought on this. Also do you physically separate your survival items from your woods items or do they all reside together? I'm in the process of looking for a better pack to carry all of it in.

Of course pics of kits and descriptions of contents are always welcome.

Thanks,

Charlie
 
I like the idea of having the stuff to start a fire with me on my person, as well as band aids, aspirin and painkiller when I'm out in the woods.

But I'm not really that into survival kits. When I am actually backpacking in the woods I usually have most of what I would need to survive with me.

Most of the dayhiking I do is in my own woods, so all I'm worried about is first aid and water.
 
Defining factors for me on which kit I will carry are:
weather(hot/cold)
terrain(desert or mountainous)
water availibility(carry water or MSR filter)
duration until help should be available

Here in Virginia, water is available so the MSR goes and I carry less water. This would lighten my load in winter when more clothing is needed. In Nevada, I would carry less clothing in winter and more water. Each persons kit should fit their environment and personal needs. This forum is a great place to learn of new kit and its suitability to my personal needs.

2Door
 
I primarily have a woods kit. My big chopper (axe/hatchet/kukri) are in my ruck, not par tof the woods kit. The woods kit is designed to fit in the top of my ruck, or it rides in the car as a day-to-day kit. Most of the area between work and home is woods, so I might as well carry the whole shebang.
 
If I am traveling light (light and fast hiking), I'll be packing a minimalist "survival" kit (will include a very light Gerber saw, if I am in the woods). If I am traveling heavier (usually on an ATV), it will be the survival kit plus a "wilderness" kit, which will include heavier items like an axe.
 
I usually have my Camel bak MULE, so it is a small backpack with 3 liters of water. I have things in it for survival and bushcraft. My items double up for both as they are all in the same pack.

I have the basic "survival" items such as:

Emergency blanket
3 or 5 in 1 whistle with matches
compass or two (one regular and one digital)
Two 50' rolls of nylon rope.
Tons of firestarting items
First aid kit
snake bite kit
water purification tablets

As for just "bushcraft" or a day in the woods having fun:

The two 50' rolls of nylon rope for making traps or a bow
100% deet bug spray (tons of mosquitos here in Texas when it's not cold)
more firestarting methods
a fixed blade thrown in the bunch (probably never gets used, but it's in there)
first aid kit
snake bite kit
water purification tablets

There's a lot more but it's actually in my car right now so I can't say for sure what the rest of the things are. I do carry a durable folder on me 24/7 and my SAK One-Hand-Trekker mainly for the saw and flathead screwdriver bit. The blade is just there for looks.

edit: I remembered my metal cup attached with a caribiner on the outside.
 
When I was taught to hunt as a child I was given a leather "possibles" bag. Possibles bags are the shoulder bags worn by muzzleloaders to carry all the items they need for their firearms - flint or caps, powder flask, bullets, patches etc. Even though I didn't shoot blackpowder, I was told to put keep my possibles bag with any thing I might "possibly" need while out hunting - and to remember that I might get stuck out there overnight and I'd better be prepared.

So that's what started me on having a PSK even before I knew the term existed. I generally think of a PSK as whatever I might possibly need when I go outdoors - so it tends to be modular and adaptable to the conditions rather than a fixed thing intended to meet all circumstances. I have a mini-PSK that's intended to stay in my pockets - but I don't really consider it anything more than an insufficient backup. Besides the fire, tinder, pocketknife, and SurvivalStraw/Micropur tablets, whistle and LED keychain light there really isn't much in my mini-PSK that's going to realistically come in handy. Sometimes I imagine myself standing in a downpour in freezing temps with an injury that prevents me from walking and opening my PSK to find fish hooks and line in them - and thinking, thank god I have these fish hooks! :rolleyes:

My "wilderness kit" has conceptually been reduced to five+1 items - knife, fire, cordage, tarp, metal cup - and in colder temps a way to gather firewood such as a hatchet, saw or chopper. Of course I should be wearing the proper clothing, carrying a canteen with water (and hopefully have a faster method of purifying water than building a fire and boiling), a first aid kit, flashlight, and a compass/map if needed. But if I've got the basics along with those five+1 things the rest is just gravy.
 
I always carry a daypack on any walk that goes away from the road. In them (I have two - one in the house and one in the truck) I have pretty much anything I need if I get stuck overnight. I dress for the weather.
 
I think a small altoids psk is a good idea for like a road trip, but if I was going out in the wilderness I would want a much larger kit. If I had just a little psk in the woods I would be worried about losing my 6 feet of fishing line and 2 hooks, or using up my 2 bandaids.
However an altoids tin is so small you could easily put it in a cargo pocket in case you lose your main kit somehow. Redundancy!
 
I'm in the 'hate carrying a designated survival kit' group. They are bulky and annoying, and usually insufficient for most everything. I prefer to keep semi-redundant, quality gear spread about my person to begin with.

If you search through old threads I've got a belt/shoulder kit that contains a lot of important and helpful basics. This is pretty much how I like to do things now.

000_0136.jpg


The contents have changed quite a lot, so the pic of internal gear is about worthless. Certainly holds enough for a good overnight though, minus a blanket.

I did recently break down and make a little altoids kit with some quality ingredients, meant to be carried in a jacket/cargo pocket. Also handy to give to a friend/girlfriend on a hike, to make me feel better just in case.
 
The "wilderness" survival is usually someone ending up in a situation that deviates from the normal. Getting lost, car breaks down on a small road, kayak doing a 180, a bear takes your stuff, your rucksack goes rafting on its own etc.

The "combat" survival is totally different, instead of being found you might do the opposite, no fire and such.

Anyway, the "wilderness kit" is what you have brought for planned activities, mostly bigger tools, better sleeping bag, normal fire kits and a proper mess kits.

The "survival kit" might be the firesteel, the whistle and the knife around your neck because a bear raided your tent when you were taking a swim in the stream.
It is a very basic kit but it starts a fire to get you warm and you can be found.

Most important is to have your head on straight. A novice might need 10 kilos of gear to get the same comfort level as an expert can do with a pocket knife and a lighter.

What amazes me is that people rarely are prepared at all. Month ago cars were stuck in traffick because of the bad weather, on a normal highway just 40 km south of Stockholm. It took so long time to get the trees and the polish 18-wheeler out of the way so fire and rescue had to use ATVs to bring food and water to the stuck people.
How hard can it be to have some blankets, a couple of cottles of water and some rations, bisquits, sweets whatever lying about in the car. It was SOP in Bosnia to have 24h rations in the jeep. Why?

Anyway. My city-PSK is a Fallkniven U2, a Leatherman Fuse, a Silva lighter, a SOLAS whistle and a Fenix P3Dq5 and a mobile. Anyway, does anyone have the number to 911/999/112?
When going into the green stuff I bring some kilos extra stuff.
I like spooky pistoleros pack. Maybe I should get one myself.
 
Yup, SPs pack is a nice design. Got one myself and like it a lot.

Take it for what it's worth, but my opinion is that survival skills/tools and wilderness living skills/tools are one and the same. Except, survival rings of fighting the things around you to stay alive and wilderness living is more like living comfortably within the perameters of nature and using those things we find around us to remain fed, sheltered and watered. The difference between the two being in the mind of the individual and how that individual views things.
 
longbow50 said:
Yup, SPs pack is a nice design. Got one myself and like it a lot.

Take it for what it's worth, but my opinion is that survival skills/tools and wilderness living skills/tools are one and the same. Except, survival rings of fighting the things around you to stay alive and wilderness living is more like living comfortably within the perameters of nature and using those things we find around us to remain fed, sheltered and watered. The difference between the two being in the mind of the individual and how that individual views things.
Click to expand...

that's a great way of putting it. i live in the city and don't consider most of what i post here as survival. it's my woods gear, most of the time. I'd be better off with a crow bar than a hatchet or bowie here. maybe a fireman's axe.

i also don't care so much about guns in the woods either. they'd be handy hunting, but i may save myself the weight in the woods, whereas in urban survival it would be one of the last things i part with.
 
nodh said:
Anyway, the "wilderness kit" is what you have brought for planned activities, mostly bigger tools, better sleeping bag, normal fire kits and a proper mess kits.

The "survival kit" might be the firesteel, the whistle and the knife around your neck because a bear raided your tent when you were taking a swim in the stream.
It is a very basic kit but it starts a fire to get you warm and you can be found.
Click to expand...

I think this described best at what I was sort of thinking. As some others have mentioned, there is a difference in mental aproach to survival versus bushcraft/wilderness living and therefore a slight difference in equipment but there definitely is a substantial overlap.

Thanks to all who have replied. Been a good thread.

Charlie
 
Hi all I think for me it is the survival/bushcraft kit together. 2 fixed blade knives one 7.5" and one 3.5 ,small axe,water bottle, 3 metal cups/pots, first aid kit, shovel, survival kit, space blanket, binos, flashlight etc. Dressing for the weather of course. Here is a few pics.
101_0105.jpg


100_0175.jpg


100_0187.jpg


101_0310.jpg


101_0293.jpg

Just sling it over my shoulder and way I go. All that weighs under 10.5 pounds. It rides up close to the body under my arm It feels better than a back pack and does not make my back all sweaty it does not pull my pants down like a fanny pack. I have tried every way to carry gear and for me this works. This system works even for my mom who is 65. She does not carry a axe but she does carry a 12 kuri by cold steel:eek: hard to believe.
All my family (Mom,sister and her hubby and son, my wife and I) does carry a small fixed blade and fire steel around there necks as a last resort survival
type of insurance. Here is a pic.
101_0181.jpg

Well that is my thoughts on suvival/bush craft kit.
Bryan
 
when i was first getting into the whole outdoors scene and looking at survival kits and things, i kept trying to put together survival kits, but kept having problems with them.

i finally figured out that it was because i always was opening up the kit and using things out of it, like cord or the firemaker, and then trying to pack the whole kit back up. it didn't go so well most of the time. inconvenient and annoying at best.

i now don't carry a survival kit, per say, but a bag of stuff i commonly need. in my pockets i always have my matchsafe and my folding knives, and in my small bag (different carry styles depending on mood) i have things like cord, a folding saw if i think i will need it, maybe a poncho or a small tarp, a bottle of water, maybe some food. i just pack what i will use throughout my jaunt.

i do alot of woods walking more than anything, so i don't really like to carry much weight. i love hatchets and big chopping knives, but they are a chore to carry, especially considering the amount of chopping i do while i am actually out in the bush (rarely any)
 
Sicily02,

Couple of questions.

1. Why 3 cups? Are you carrying for more than one person. Just don't see the need for that much redundancy but I may be missing something as well.

2. Who makes the tallest cup you picture and what is it made out of? Been thinking of converting my PSk to one built in and around a nalgene and cup.

Thanks for sharing the info and pics.

Charlie
 
I don't really have a "survival" kit. I just have my kit. I am really done buying gear to bring with me in the woods...even knives (maybe??). I have realised that all I lack is knowledge and experiance. I am buying books quite a bit lately, field guides and survival guides...I see were you are going I think with the original post, and I think that I don't really think you need a survival kit if you have knowledge and a good knife. I do go into the woods better prepared than most I think, and thats just normal for one of US...we just happen to be gear guys. I guess I think that a survival kit is a good idea, but it is really what you know that is going to really save you. Gene
 
CShepherd more metal cups to boil water, more cups to hold anything, berries, nuts, big pot for stew, middle cup for wild mint tea, small cup for
desert( wild berries maybe) what ever your imagination can come up with.
You could boil alot more water to refill your canteen, three more digging tools
ETC.

The big cup and the small cup are together. It is called the SOLO by snow peak. There you go Charlie. I hope this helps.

Bryan
 
The main reason for my PSk is my tendency to borrow gear and never replace it. So my PSK is mainly a double of what i carry. I always refrain from taking stuff from it so if I need something i wont realise that I just used it last weekend and didnt have time to put it back.
 
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