Hey i have the same dreams as you but being 14 i cant act on them. i just want to go out and live and take in nature. read the book Into the wild it will do you good. please talk to me about this Hall07 i would love to hear more. maybe in the next 40 years you'll be on the front line of the newspaper for surviving. so please talk to me i would love to hear more from a person with the same ideals, views and dreams that i have
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Wilderness Surviving and Primitive Living
- Thread starter Hall07
- Start date
I was wondering when someone would mention "Into the Wild." It seems to be the "get away from this crazy world" bible of sorts.
I lived in Alaska for 8+ years. During that time I earned my photojournalism degree. Had to read that book for a literary journalism class. It was sort of interesting to see the way he was portrayed in the book compared to most Alaskans opinion of him (basically stupid, suicidal and didn't even know it).
I can't remember if this was mentioned in the book or not (been a few years) but it was later discovered that he had gone up and down the river looking for a way to get out. If he would have gone another 100 yards downstream from his farthest point (which was not very far in the first place) he would have found a very easy place to cross.
Just have a hard time idealizing anyone that would head into the Alaskan wilderness with rice and a .22 and expect to survive. Too much of a statistic waiting to happen for me. Sort of like living with a bunch of bears, claiming to be an expert, then getting you and your girlfriend eaten alive. Not too bright.
Just my opinion though. If you truly want to experience the susistance lifestyle, sign on to work at one of the really remote fishing camps in Alaska, or find a cabin to occupy for a year. If you can make it up there during the entire year, and maintain your sanity, then you can make it in the wild just about anywhere. There are lots of good resources out there to tell you how to truly live off the grid, which is what it sounds like you're looking to do.
Charlie
Charlie
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2007
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:thumbup::thumbup:
This and the 'go to Africa' I think are great pieces of advice given your age. You are young, but not too young, to make a decision over what you want to do for a couple of years without it necessarily closing doors for a possible careers down the line.
With some effort you should be able to dig up many opportunties to work in a wilderness setting or as a volunteer in an international setting. You may simply find that your current living situation is what is making you feel the way you do and you are focussing your anger on human society rather than the immediate culture you find yourself in. For some people, a hermit lifestyle is what they ultimately choose, but that tends to be relatively rare occurance. Most people in time get lonely and want some type companionship - we are social animals after all.
I had similar feelings as you do at your age. I'm not trying to be patronizing of your youth, but just trying to suggest that many people go through what you are feeling and have ultimately chosen to integrate themselves in society with the benefit of keeping a healthy love and respect for the great outdoors. Personally, a big step for myself was moving away to go to school and with each degree I ended up living in a new city. I found that changing my living settings made a huge difference in my tolerance to a modern world way of life. When, and or if, you've lived in the same place most of your life, then you tend to see the ugliness and take the good things for granted.
Good luck on your pursuits.
Edit: Also the earlier advice - you can live in a culture but not live the cutlure is great advice. Nobody says you have to keep-up with the Jone's and simply forgoing the trappings of modernism - e.g. cell phones and electronic gidgets can help you 1) save cash that will allow you real financial independence and 2) give yourself a bit of moral highground.
Yes, I am a tough guy. I'm a manly man. Why, I'm the manliest man to ever be a man. I don't own A firearm...I own THE firearm. Besides...knives and guns won't do you shit if you ain't got the gumpshon to use 'em. By gumpshon I mean knowledge. You can spend your life savings on neat little toys and all the gear in the world. But if you don't have the gray matter between your ears, you're a Darwin in training. What I'm saying is this: We're all programmed differently. One could spend his life toiling away at his career, have hundreds of thousands of dollars in savings and in one fell swoop find the world gone to hell and suddenly he's looking at the back side of Martial Law, with nothing to do but wait on Uncle Sam to bail him out. On the other hand, I might spend my life preparing, learning and honing my skills and teaching them to my son only to have nothing happen (which'd be just fine by me, btw). But to call something a fantasy just because you don't take it seriously is an insult to those of us who do.
When I was about 3 years old and the concept of how the Natives of this land used to live trickled into my consciousness, I knew it was something I wanted to learn how to do. That urge has been with me ever since.
Having gotten an anthropology degree and briefly studied all kinds of ancient and modern low-tech cultures, here is some food for thought:
Hunter-gatherers moved around a lot, following game, harvesting nuts and seeds as they came into season, and relocating to reasonable areas during the winter. If they stayed in one place, they would eventually do so much hunting that the game wouldn't pass through that area any more. So they'd have to go further and further afield, until eventually the trip burned more calories than they brought back in game. Then it was moving time.
I'm not sure how having only one person would change that - if the one guy lived in Alaska for 30 years, maybe you can stay in one area if you're alone. But all that sort of depends on how much, if any, contact you want to have with modern society.
You could go entirely primitive - learn to make bows, arrow shafts, fletching, arrowheads and knives from appropriate stone, learn how to brain-tan, etc etc. Build your own shelters, and move around to find game and edible plants. You could leave the rest of the world behind, just don't expect to live long.
Agriculture got invented because it was a more stable, reliable food source (albeit one with less variety - early agriculturists often suffered from protein starvation and various other nutrient deficiencies). With agriculture comes things like pottery (too heavy and fragile to carry if you're always moving about) and all the other trappings and luxuries we associate with sedentary culture.
So you can move around a lot, with not a lot of gear and only temporary or portable shelters (unless you're doing a circuit and can build dwellings in several different places over the years), or you can stay in one place and have more gear and permanent shelter.
With the right investment in tools and animals, you might be able to stay in one place and farm with very little contact with the outside world (and have a nice snug home in which to live). You'd need a charcoal forge and blacksmithing tools so you could repair your farm implements and other tools (and know how to make charcoal, and you'd need some steel stock or scrap for the raw materials). You'd be eating flatbread unless you could figure out how to get or produce yeast or sodium bicarbonate. About the only thing I think you'd need from the outside world is fresh breeding stock - not sure how long you can inbreed chickens, cattle, et. al. without running into genetic difficulties. Oh, and powder for reloading. You're going to have to provide veterinary care for your working animals and livestock, or rely on the outside world for it. Beyond that, you could have various amenities depending on how much cash you wanted to sink into your home to begin with. A Franklin stove would be a boon, for example, and I second the earlier suggestions to use modern means to drill a well.
The next point on the spectrum, with more contact with the modern world, is the mountain man style that has already been detailed.
As far as locations - off the top of my head I see a couple of options. 1) buy land somewhere and do the farming or mountain man thing. Ponder the local climate and how that's going to affect you, your livestock, and your crops. Ponder life without insect repellent. 2) do the hunter-gatherer thing in areas like the NW coast. The NW coast has such a rich ecology that the natives were able to live in sedentary cultures (and have the luxuries associated with such) without agriculture.
But for now, get every book on primitive technology you can and read it. Use modern amenities like libraries and the internet to get as much knowledge as you can before you try anything. And, when you do try something, I'll parrot the others - don't burn bridges, and try it temporarily first.
Personally, that sort of thing isn't for me. I wouldn't mind doing it if modern society collapsed or whatever, but I wouldn't do it by choice. I'm a voracious reader and I like to travel. My idea thing would be a house off-grid with mostly modern amenities (including satellite internet), producing some of my own food (chickens and vegetables, for ex), and using mostly modern tools. I'd drive into town for medical care and stuff I couldn't produce myself, like building materials, replacement solar panels, citrus fruits, vitamins, ammo, etc.
Having gotten an anthropology degree and briefly studied all kinds of ancient and modern low-tech cultures, here is some food for thought:
Hunter-gatherers moved around a lot, following game, harvesting nuts and seeds as they came into season, and relocating to reasonable areas during the winter. If they stayed in one place, they would eventually do so much hunting that the game wouldn't pass through that area any more. So they'd have to go further and further afield, until eventually the trip burned more calories than they brought back in game. Then it was moving time.
I'm not sure how having only one person would change that - if the one guy lived in Alaska for 30 years, maybe you can stay in one area if you're alone. But all that sort of depends on how much, if any, contact you want to have with modern society.
You could go entirely primitive - learn to make bows, arrow shafts, fletching, arrowheads and knives from appropriate stone, learn how to brain-tan, etc etc. Build your own shelters, and move around to find game and edible plants. You could leave the rest of the world behind, just don't expect to live long.
Agriculture got invented because it was a more stable, reliable food source (albeit one with less variety - early agriculturists often suffered from protein starvation and various other nutrient deficiencies). With agriculture comes things like pottery (too heavy and fragile to carry if you're always moving about) and all the other trappings and luxuries we associate with sedentary culture.
So you can move around a lot, with not a lot of gear and only temporary or portable shelters (unless you're doing a circuit and can build dwellings in several different places over the years), or you can stay in one place and have more gear and permanent shelter.
With the right investment in tools and animals, you might be able to stay in one place and farm with very little contact with the outside world (and have a nice snug home in which to live). You'd need a charcoal forge and blacksmithing tools so you could repair your farm implements and other tools (and know how to make charcoal, and you'd need some steel stock or scrap for the raw materials). You'd be eating flatbread unless you could figure out how to get or produce yeast or sodium bicarbonate. About the only thing I think you'd need from the outside world is fresh breeding stock - not sure how long you can inbreed chickens, cattle, et. al. without running into genetic difficulties. Oh, and powder for reloading. You're going to have to provide veterinary care for your working animals and livestock, or rely on the outside world for it. Beyond that, you could have various amenities depending on how much cash you wanted to sink into your home to begin with. A Franklin stove would be a boon, for example, and I second the earlier suggestions to use modern means to drill a well.
The next point on the spectrum, with more contact with the modern world, is the mountain man style that has already been detailed.
As far as locations - off the top of my head I see a couple of options. 1) buy land somewhere and do the farming or mountain man thing. Ponder the local climate and how that's going to affect you, your livestock, and your crops. Ponder life without insect repellent. 2) do the hunter-gatherer thing in areas like the NW coast. The NW coast has such a rich ecology that the natives were able to live in sedentary cultures (and have the luxuries associated with such) without agriculture.
But for now, get every book on primitive technology you can and read it. Use modern amenities like libraries and the internet to get as much knowledge as you can before you try anything. And, when you do try something, I'll parrot the others - don't burn bridges, and try it temporarily first.
Personally, that sort of thing isn't for me. I wouldn't mind doing it if modern society collapsed or whatever, but I wouldn't do it by choice. I'm a voracious reader and I like to travel. My idea thing would be a house off-grid with mostly modern amenities (including satellite internet), producing some of my own food (chickens and vegetables, for ex), and using mostly modern tools. I'd drive into town for medical care and stuff I couldn't produce myself, like building materials, replacement solar panels, citrus fruits, vitamins, ammo, etc.
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,435
I take preparedness seriously but you're a paranoid and big tough talk on an internet forum is weenie stuff. :jerkit:
Meanwhile, this kid is talking about living in the wilderness off the land. That, my friend, is a fantasy that many enjoy dreaming about but few want to do when it comes down to it. Talking nonsense about how you've got sharp knives and an shotgun to shoot someone when the SHTF is stupid.
Many of us know how to sharpen a knife, make a fire, build a shelter, hunt and fish, and prepare for disasters. That's not what this kid is talking about.
Thank you. You're right, I'm paranoid scum who should be committed and all my guns should be taken and my knives dulled. I'm a tough talking weenie. You, sir, are a God among men and everything you say is right. Feel better? Good. Now we can stop discussing my post and get to the reason for the thread.
Hall07,
Some good resources are the Hood's Woods videos. Ron Hood makes everything pretty easy to understand and explains it well. Go to www.survival.com. Join the forum too, it's free and there's plenty of folks who know their stuff. Lots of valuable info.
Also, you should read "Bush Craft" by Mors Kochanski and any of Christopher Nyerges books on wild edibles is a good place to start.
Tom Brown Jr has a few things, but it's too tedious to wade through his BS about "Apache Grandfather" and all that jazz to fool with.
As well you should ignore EVERYTHING Bear Grylls says to do. And don't buy in to the "Into the Wilderness" book. That guy was asking for trouble.
Find some old folks, they're priceless as far as knowing edible and medicinal plants (you can never know too many of those).
Learn as much as you can about primitive building skills (log cabins, insulation, etc...), water purification, traps and snares (hell if you can find one, get a licensed trapper to teach you).
Lastly: practice, practice, practice. And when you think you've practiced enough...practice some more. Own the skills. Know what materials you need to what with. Don't get discouraged and never give up, you won't learn all in a year. Probably not even a lifetime.
You should always be learning, nobody knows everything. You'll encounter plenty of setbacks, everybody does. If you have to, camp out in your front yard or back yard and use what wild edibles are there (if nothing else just to practice). Camp in the woods behind your house, day hike, whatevery you have to do. There's nothing to it, but to do it...and that ain't no lie. You don't have to have the best equipment, the fanciest new gizmo or the shiniest knife on the market. But you DO have to have the know how. Once you own the skills, the rest is just hardware.
Sorry for getting a little off thread earlier.
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 327
I have thought about it but it's not a reality, not in a "I'm leaving civilisation today and living in the bush" kind of way.
I think this stuff is more fun and way more bearable in a mental health kind of way if you do it with others around, a bit like the forum you can bounce ideas and problems(read challenges) of them and keep sane.
Just my .02
Jules
I think this stuff is more fun and way more bearable in a mental health kind of way if you do it with others around, a bit like the forum you can bounce ideas and problems(read challenges) of them and keep sane.
Just my .02
Jules
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2007
- Messages
- 8
I am 38 and I have been trying to live close to nature all my life. I was a typical nature-boy as a kid. At 13, I read Tom Brown Jr.'s "Wilderness Survival", and I got big into it from then on. Now, I am an "expert" LOL. I have recently graduated from college in Anthropology and Ethnobotany (learn as much as you can). Now, I grapple with what you are talking about, but more seriously now that I am a bit older, I am looking for people who want to buy some land and create a permaculture farm. Permaculture is the answer (my opinion), and we could sell our surplus to local farmer's markets. I am going to get a master's degree in Environment & Community soon. I hope to meet people who want to create and live communally in a small permaculture eco-village environment, preferably next to a large National Forest so we can do all the survival stuff too! And, the further south we go, the longer our growing season is. I have even been looking into sub-tropical regions. It really won't take all that much land to grow all the food we'll need, but it will be a full-time lifestyle. We'll need to manage a woodlot for fuel, grow a food forest (fruit-bearing trees and shrubs) and herbaceous gardens, raise chickens, and even fish in ponds. Everything will be designed as a synergistic, yield intensive system, which produces no waste. It is design by ecology. There's alot to it. So much so, the more I learn, the more I realize it is the answer to many problems facing the world today. The more interdisciplinary, the better. PM me if you want to share ideas. Maybe we have similar goals.
If you want to "get back to Nature, live off the land out in the middle of nowhere," etc., you should buy a book entitled "THE RIDGERUNNER, Elusive Loner Of The Wilderness," by Richard Ripley, Backeddy Books Publ., (c) 1986.
It's the story of Bill Moreland, who lived out in the wilds of Idaho's central and northcentral mountains, back in the days when it was easier to do so than today. That was in the 1930s and 1940s.
You'll get an idea as to what it is REALLY like to live out in the middle of harsh country, with just a very few "tools" to get by.
BTW, several years ago there was a guy here in s.w. Idaho, and n.w. Nevada, named Claude Dallas, who kinda got into the same mindset... live out in the boonies away from people and live off of the land, poaching, trapping, selling furs, etc. You might do an ask.com search on him.
Good luck.
L.W.
It's the story of Bill Moreland, who lived out in the wilds of Idaho's central and northcentral mountains, back in the days when it was easier to do so than today. That was in the 1930s and 1940s.
You'll get an idea as to what it is REALLY like to live out in the middle of harsh country, with just a very few "tools" to get by.
BTW, several years ago there was a guy here in s.w. Idaho, and n.w. Nevada, named Claude Dallas, who kinda got into the same mindset... live out in the boonies away from people and live off of the land, poaching, trapping, selling furs, etc. You might do an ask.com search on him.
Good luck.
L.W.
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2005
- Messages
- 3,516
I really don't think it's a bad idea, and it was what brought me to this forum.
I plan on doing the same thing, however not as far as you plan to, I have some lakefront land back home, its about 30 minutes from the town I grew up in, but I plan to have a nice little cabin, a garden, woodstove, some chickens, a couple of cows, etc. But
I still plan on having a life and connections to the outside world.
A few month long trips to live off the land around the world in prime locations would be nice as well.
I feel that the job I have now in this cold and treeless place is short term pain to save up, buy supplies and gain knowledge to be able to get out of the rat race.
Could my plans change? Of course, I could meet a woman and settle down tommorow, get a career and the picket fence and mini van, but she would have to be some woman for that existence.
Forgot to defend Chris Mcandless, from into the Wild, he was a good guy doing something he believed in, and he was doing pretty well until he accidently poisoned himself. If he knew he would one day be famous for it he probably would not have done it, but he was a firm believer that people need to challenge themselves, and get back to a more primal life, even if it means just going on a hike.
I plan on doing the same thing, however not as far as you plan to, I have some lakefront land back home, its about 30 minutes from the town I grew up in, but I plan to have a nice little cabin, a garden, woodstove, some chickens, a couple of cows, etc. But
I still plan on having a life and connections to the outside world.
A few month long trips to live off the land around the world in prime locations would be nice as well.
I feel that the job I have now in this cold and treeless place is short term pain to save up, buy supplies and gain knowledge to be able to get out of the rat race.
Could my plans change? Of course, I could meet a woman and settle down tommorow, get a career and the picket fence and mini van, but she would have to be some woman for that existence.
Forgot to defend Chris Mcandless, from into the Wild, he was a good guy doing something he believed in, and he was doing pretty well until he accidently poisoned himself. If he knew he would one day be famous for it he probably would not have done it, but he was a firm believer that people need to challenge themselves, and get back to a more primal life, even if it means just going on a hike.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
- Messages
- 605
Hall07,
I think you've got a difficult decision to make, but not an unrealistic one. It is getting more difficult to pull it off these days though because of how the system wants to tie us up and keep us in its pocket. Your GF problem will be the first character shaping decision in the equation. You'll either decide that she means too much to you to leave her and go on having a life with her, or you'll wander away and possibly connect with a more like minded person.
I think that it is entirely understandable that you want to go off and be away from the pseudo-culture that is seperating us from our higher nature. Pick your destination and start learning what it will take and if it's still possible to live there like Dick Proenneke did.
In Alaska it most likely is. But watch his vids and see if that could really be you. I'm just now 51. The same age he was when he went there. I had to move my family 4 years ago out of the high mtns. of Colorado because my oldest son was getting constant headaches from the high elevation. So that kind of killed the buzz for me. I'd go back, and farther if I could right now because things are going to deteriorate in society at a very fast clip now. This would be a good time and age for you to solve this dilemma so that it won't be dogging you for years to come. Just be sure that you are skilled.
I think you've got a difficult decision to make, but not an unrealistic one. It is getting more difficult to pull it off these days though because of how the system wants to tie us up and keep us in its pocket. Your GF problem will be the first character shaping decision in the equation. You'll either decide that she means too much to you to leave her and go on having a life with her, or you'll wander away and possibly connect with a more like minded person.
I think that it is entirely understandable that you want to go off and be away from the pseudo-culture that is seperating us from our higher nature. Pick your destination and start learning what it will take and if it's still possible to live there like Dick Proenneke did.
In Alaska it most likely is. But watch his vids and see if that could really be you. I'm just now 51. The same age he was when he went there. I had to move my family 4 years ago out of the high mtns. of Colorado because my oldest son was getting constant headaches from the high elevation. So that kind of killed the buzz for me. I'd go back, and farther if I could right now because things are going to deteriorate in society at a very fast clip now. This would be a good time and age for you to solve this dilemma so that it won't be dogging you for years to come. Just be sure that you are skilled.
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 78
There's a book on the internet on Wildnerness survival. It's part instruction manual and part diary of a guy who spent a summer (about 3 months) living in the woods with a friend. Very interesting. They basically left to the woods with their clothes and a knife. That's it. They went very primitive. No permanent shelter, no permanent camp, etc. I know that's not what you want, but his experience may be of interest to you. If you are tired of this rat race...try joining the forestry service. They'll stick you in the middle of no where and you can have peace and solitude and still get online for connection to the outside world if you want.
batosai117
Gold Member
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- Jun 5, 2007
- Messages
- 5,463
I think you should go to school. I'm the same age as you, but I'm in school for Range and Wildlife management, which means that after I graduate ~1 year, I will apply for the position of a Texas Game Warden, or a Park Ranger. It is one sure way that I'll be in the outdoors most of my adult life and still have a wife and family. I also have a longterm GF, 3 years, and I wouldn't give her up for a caveman dream. I would love to buy a mountain and live off of it, but I would also miss my family and friends. It isn't a win/win sort of thing that you want to do. Yes, you'll be living your dream, but you will have to say goodbye to Everyone. I've been in Boy Scouts since I was 5, and I earned my Eagle award, which has helped inspire me to choose the field that I'm going into. So don't throw in the towel on life just yet, just get a simple education, keep your girl, and get a dream job that keeps you close to nature.
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 327
good words batosai117.
jules
jules
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 1,265
Big Bend is real empty from what I've heard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bend_National_Park
"Big Bend is one of the largest, most remote, and least-visited national parks in the lower 48 United States"
batosai117, I'm your same age and depending on the area of the country your living it it is very hard to get a Park Service job and had to change majors last year for that reason. So Hallo7, there is a lot of great advice but if you decide on doing or not make sure it is something you can live with.