Will etching/bluing completely wash out a makers mark?

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Salolan

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Feb 27, 2013
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Just as the titles says, will etching and bluing a blade completely wash out an electro chemical makers mark? I am currently working on 3 paring knives in 15n20 and I was planning on forcing a patina and then bluing them. Am I wrong assuming it will wash out the mark? Would it show any mark if I did it after the bluing? I had thought of trying to use fingernail polish as a resist, I am just concerned about clarity and repeatable results. I also thought about trying to do a deep etch and then applying the resist to the etch and sanding lightly to remove the resist outside the mark.

I plan on doing some experiments. Will using cut off scraps that aren't heat treated skew my results much? Any thoughts, suggestions or ideas are appreciated.

Thank you as always,
Chris
 
Are you cold bluing?
I don't think that is advisable for food prep knives. From what I've read cold blue is toxic.
I think hot bluing might be safe.
 
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Yes, I had planned on cold blue. I can just stop with the forced patina, I was just thinking darker would be neat. Good thing I asked questions and I guess I should frequent the kitchen knives area more frequently.

Thank you.
Chris
 
Cold blue isn't very tough either... It rubs off pretty quick. A good forced patina is better, since the knife will patina with use anyway. (I'm assuming simple carbon steel since the chem blue and patina comments...) And yes, the chemicals used for cold blue are no bueno when it comes to ingestion.

If your mark is good and deep it won't trash it to etch. I usually etch my mark before my final finish. When I'm at about 600 I etch pretty deep. Then polish on out, light FeCl etch to make it uniform and pop any detail up. Then forced patina and the like. If I want a contrast, I may color the etch (black oxide) chemically and block sand over it before the FeCl etch. Stays black...

-Eric
 
Yes Eric, I am using 15n20. I know stainless would be better, but I am not anywhere close to being ready to try heat treating stainless.

Black oxide? Do you use the home brew I found on youtube made from phosphoric acid and manganese dioxide powder or is there something else out there?

Thank you,
Chris
 
I use a black oxide mix I got from the Gunsmith school in Lakewood, CO. I used to live and work in Denver and was an armorer so I got friendly with the school. I think it is pretty close to the common formula online.

Birchwood Casey aluminum black will also blacken steel. You have to keep it oiled after as it slightly eats the surface and isn't as good of a corrosion deterrent as even the cold blue, but it gives a good dark black.

BTW, FeCl won't color 15n20 dark like it does the simple 10xx steels. Hence why it's used for contrast in damascus... But FeCl will etch and blacken aluminum almost better than the aluminum black...
 
The "old" way of bluing was to induce the iron to rust, creating red oxide. Then convert the red oxide to black/blue oxide by boiling it in water. The process is pretty simple, but it takes quite some time unless you speed it up with chemicals.
 
finish steel well, you want a clean finish

etch signature deep

darken knife with ferric, acid or hot vinegar solution


I wouldn't use blueing...
 
Thank you all for the advice. I am pretty sure I'm just going to end up marking and then forcing a patina with vinegar. I thought I still might experiment on scrap the resist methods. Any thoughts on how using steel that isn't heat treated might skew my results?

I remember seeing somewhere that someone said finishing to 220 was adequate for an etched or forced patina blade. I had planned on going to 400. Should I maybe go to 1000 instead?

Thanks,
Chris
 
h20oni said:
The "old" way of bluing was to induce the iron to rust, creating red oxide. Then convert the red oxide to black/blue oxide by boiling it in water. The process is pretty simple, but it takes quite some time unless you speed it up with chemicals.
Click to expand...

Is the resulting black oxide of the old way toxic too?
 
No, it's just a stabilized form of rust, and if you don't care for it correctly it will rust too. Not as fast as untreated metal, but faster than other forms of finishing...
 
h20oni said:
No, it's just a stabilized form of rust, and if you don't care for it correctly it will rust too. Not as fast as untreated metal, but faster than other forms of finishing...
Click to expand...

Cool Thank you. I don't like finishings as most of them are made from materials which I don't want to eat :D However if the black oxide (the old way) is food safe I will give it a try.
:thumbup:
 
Look up rust bluing on black powder websites/forums for tutorials... they'll be able to explain it better than I...
 
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