Will I die if I put RV antifreeze in my wet grinding bucket?

[james terrio]

Salt is a bad idea. General cleanliness and good housekeeping is always a good idea.

The propylene glycol antifreeze is non toxic. Ethylene glycol is sweet tasting, poisonous and can kill whatever creature might drink it. The fumes from the ethylene glycol are also purported to be toxic. Both are combustible if separated from the mixture with water. I am not sure what the ignition temperatures are though. So perhaps wet grinding with them might not be the best course of action.

I'm not a chemist, but I'm almost entirely sure that all Bo's statements are correct. Including, I am certain that it's very difficult to ignite anti-freeze, it's not a great idea to breath the vapors (like if you quenched hot steel in it - don't do that!), and definitely not a good idea for you or your pets to drink it.

But still, err on the side of caution. Frankly, I see no reason to use glycol compounds for grinding or cooling steel in the first place. Don't over-think this stuff. The simplest solution is very often the best one.

If your shop gets that cold (and believe me, I know how that is... I made knives for a couple winters in an unheated shop in central Wisconsin, where it's what scientists call "colder than a witch's tit" from November to March ), you'll be better off investing in a small infrared or oil heater to keep near your grinding station and work normally. That will cost maybe $150 new, last for many years, and use so little electricity that you probably won't even notice it on your monthly utility bill. They won't make the shop "room temperature", but they will allow you to work reasonably comfortably when dressed appropriately, and most likely keep your wet-grinding apparatus and/or slack bucket from freezing up.

 

[Maelstrom78]

Yeah I've been thinking about it and I'll try the bucket warmer first ( for the clean water in my wet grinding bucket, not the dunk / spark bucket). I'm not sure that aerosolizing antifreeze while grinding wet with it on the belt is such a great idea. Plus that junk will get all over my goggles too. So the little bucket heater deal should keep it from freezing solid.

 

[Robert Erickson]

Another reason to dump the water from the dip bucket or wet grinder reservoir at the end of the day and put fresh water in the next time you need to use it...

The bacteria that causes Legionnaire's disease lives in warm standing water and there have been a few cases in industry where workers got Legionnaire's that was traced to breathing the atomized bacteria laden water that sprays around when wet grinding or dry grinding and dipping. Letting the bucket dry out, and maybe even cleaning it once in a while, helps to prevent bacterial build-up.

Important point. I put dish soap (which I believe has Triclosan an antibacterial agent in it) in my dip bucket to clear the swarf I wonder if it's enough to limit the growth of bacteria?

 

[Mahoney]

There are a few ways to keep water/coolant clean, but only a couple have any value in metal working.

There are a lot of water based coolants (Usually a fluid you add to water) used in industry for flood cooling of cutting processes that you could use in a dip bucket or grinder reservoir, but you have to make sure you keep the concentration of additive at the right level to prevent bacterial growth. Testing is not hard, but it's one more thing to do. The coolant additives also have some anti-corrosion properties that could be useful on a wet grinder. If plain water will do though, it's much cheaper...

You could use chlorine bleach or bromine, but they're corrosive so these won't be a good idea for metal work, and again the concentration has to be high enough to kill the bacteria, although there are simple test kits to be sure you have the right levels in the water. Hydrogen peroxide...also corrosive. I don't know of simple test kits for other additives like Triclosan or Lysol, I doubt a few drops of dish soap will be enough to do the job though

Perhaps I am spoiled by having water within 30' of the grinders, but I can't see trying to preserve water from day to day either in a dip bucket or a grinder reservoir. Anything you put in it that will kill the bacteria will probably cost more than fresh water daily. If you need or want coolant rather than water in a grinder reservoir, that's another matter. I don't know if there are anti-freeze coolants though...

If it's so cold in your shop that the bucket freezes solid during a working day, then some heat is in order. Or maybe it's time to take up forging...