Will INFI become a metal of the past?

D

Darkjedi

Joined
Aug 9, 2000
Messages
56
I was doing some research on the net and came acrossed a company that says they have come up with a new supermetal that is 50 times stronger than any metal on the market. I need to enlist the vast knowledge of the forums knifenuts. Is this company's claims true or not.

Here is the address: www.questek.com

Darkjedi- "I need to see pics of the new Busses please."
 
I doubt it. As they say, "The proof is in the pudding." ( I have no idea what that means, but I hear it now and then)

The performance of INFI is proven, but is it that much better then properly forged and heat treated 52100? Is 52100 that much better then properly forged and heat treated 5160? Do you see what I'm getting at?

I doubt that there will that much improvement, if any, over INFI or any other good steel for all practical purposes.

They can make all the claims they want to, but until it's tested and proven, it's just hype. (IMHO)
 
Well, I'd trust INFI... at the moment. This new steel sounds damn good to me though. I'd like to see some head to head tests. But hey, INFI may well be the greatest "BLADE" steel we will ever see... probably not, but who knows.

It's late, I'm tired

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Fear is the mind killer
 
"It seems obvious: when you are making the hardest steels in history, you can forge the toughest broadsword ever made. Well, maybe it isn't obvious to everybody, but that's the way we think around here."

This is a quote from their website; I haven't looked at the whole thing, but I do remember some discussion about this in the general forum. I believe the general consensus was that harder=less tough, and that this was basically a form of case-hardening. I find it hard to believe that there aren't any trade-offs somewhere in the process.
 
Sounds too good to be true. Probably is. I'd like to see an actual knife or sword made of the stuff and let's see it put through its paces. Then we'll know a bit more.

[This message has been edited by HJK (edited 04-10-2001).]
 
I just checked out the above site and all I get in an intro page with no links to further information. I also did a search that turned up lots of links to interesting topics but all were not active, page no longer on the server. Are there any pages that list technical information on what they are doing and the kind of results they are getting as well as contact information?

-Cliff
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Cliff Stamp:
I just checked out the above site and all I get in an intro page with no links to further information. I also did a search that turned up lots of links to interesting topics but all were not active, page no longer on the server. Are there any pages that list technical information on what they are doing and the kind of results they are getting as well as contact information?

-Cliff</font>
Click to expand...


They had three .pdf files with specs. I tried to download them, but my computer would lock up after page one. After three tries, I gave up.



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Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else.
 
I've read an article couple weeks ago regarding this steel and that company. If someone's interested I'll try to dig it up,scan & post t on my web somewhere.
In short the data was that the HRC is 68-69, yet not brittle. Also there was a pic of te Japanese hunting knife (HRC 60) that was pressed (in the wise or something like that) against a sample viking knife made of C69.
Tha hunter got a nick aprox .25 inch deep, though the article stated that the C69 bade chipped too.
Practically, that Dragonslayer sword project is intended to draw more attention to C69 and quastech products in general. I am sorta suspicious regarding their plans to add meteorites (so to say space metal) into the alloy, for that I have no idea how will this affect overall performance
smile.gif
Though as the quastech guys say it will definitely add to its mystique value
biggrin.gif

That's all I recall now.

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zvis.com
Have Fun,
Alligator
 
Gator - you're probably thinking of the article that appeared in the February issue of Wired. That article is linked on the Questek site.
 
I know somebody who got to test one of these super special knives with this really hard tough steel. He told me he slammed the knife made from INFI(a BM) and this knife made from this special stuff edge to edge. I was told that the bm got cut into a bit over a 1/4 inch. The other knife wasn't damaged. I don't know if this is true but the source of this info is very creditable.
Me personally...why split hairs. I love using my BM-e because to me it is very functional and useful.BUt I also like using my own blades forged from 5160 and 1095. To me i could care less if this steel exists. I don't need it...I don't mind having to stop and sharpen up.
Just my 2 cents
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Wulf:
Gator - you're probably thinking of the article that appeared in the February issue of Wired. That article is linked on the Questek site.</font>
Click to expand...

Yap
smile.gif
That was it. Haven't checked that site though
smile.gif



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zvis.com
Have Fun,
Alligator
 
In Busse Combat's quest for perfection we are in contact with a number of companies who claim to have developed high performance steels. We are not ones to sit on our laurels and ignore any new technology that might offer an improvement over our current offering. That being said, it is important to note that we are testing many new steels and alloys at this time.

Based on direct information I have received, I feel confident in stating that that the steel mentioned in this thread has NOT been tested against an INFI blade . . . yet.

When a new steel comes along that can outperform INFI, you can rest assured that we will do our best to make sure that it is in a Busse Combat blade.

Yours in nuclear performance,

Jerry Busse

[This message has been edited by Jerry Busse (edited 04-11-2001).]
 
Jerry,

Well said.

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye mdpoff@hotmail.com

My website, guided links, talonite/cobalt alloy info, etc....
http://www.geocities.com/mdpoff

&gt;&gt;---&gt;Bill Siegle Custom Knives&lt;---&lt;&lt;
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

"To wait for luck is the same as waiting for death." -Japanese Proverb

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." Lao Tzu

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
Jerry, I would like to point out that this was not a rant in any form, just simple research I do on the Net in my quest for the superknife. I was glad to hear that you too are always on the lookout for a new supermetal. May I suggest cyro-treated 420 steel :-)

P.S. I recently received my Basic#9 and all I can say is "Bravo". This knife is amazing, I think I know why it keeps its edge so long. Because anything I am about to cut with it, like hairs on the arm, jump off in fear of being cut by this elegant tool.

Darkjedi- "Please post some pics of the new Busse knives."
 
I'm always skeptical and interested when new alloys are developed with fantastic claims. The problem usually was that these knives cost alot and no one was ever willing to abuse due to no good warranty.

I remember dealing with an individual that was perfecting knives made from NITINOL. He sent me one of the knives telling me that it was unbreakable. Well, I broke it so quick, that I couldn't believe it. The fracture was in three places on the knife. I called him and he stated that it must not have been heat treated. I don't know if he ever got anywere. The knives were poorly designed and made and the grind was awefull, but I was hoping for an incredible material. Oh well.

Don't expect miracles from standard alloys.
 
In addition to the article in wired, there was a link to another article focused on new ways of developing materials -- in general, not just steel.

Questek isn't in the knife making business. They are essentially attempting to prove that appropriate computer programming, can bypass the experimental phase of new product development, to a large extent. They have thus far, come up with 3 new steel alloys from their program, that supposedly looks at all the elements frequently used in steel, and at various heat treating schemes, etc., and the program has given them 3 formulas.

One of the articles said something to the effect that the formula and heat treating process somehow migrates the hard carbides to the surface of the metal, while leaving the inside softer. This supposedly enables them to make an extremely hard steel, which remains ductile.

One of their chief goals in what they're doing is to create a steel so good that parts -- gears and the like -- can be made much smaller than they are now. They said they can't make a lighter steel, but if they can make small parts they can cut a great deal of weight.

It isn't stated flatly, but it seems obvious that the ability to avoid research which is primarily based upon experimentation, allows them to bring a new product to market much more quickly than is usual, and presumably, cheaper as well. I for one would welcome a new "super steel" for cutlery that doesn't approach gold in its cost.


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Asi es la vida

Bugs
 
Lukers:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">He told me he slammed the knife made from INFI(a BM) and this knife made from this special stuff edge to edge. I was told that the bm got cut into a bit over a 1/4 inch. The other knife wasn't damaged.</font>
Click to expand...

If you take two edges of equal geometry and press them into each other then the harder one will readily cut into the softer. All this shows is that one blade is harder than the other. Yes I would expect a 69 RC piece of steel to cut into INFI, you could do similar with M7 (66 RC).

I would be curious how tough this metal is and how ductile it is, not just the core, but the piece as a whole when in dimensions as are you would find on a knife blade (1/4" - 1/8" thick). I have no doubt that it is very wear resistant.

-Cliff
 
I'm glad that new steels are continuingly being developed. Only good can come out of it. If it really is all that, then Busse will probably buy some for its knives, or maybe it has its own new super steel that is waiting to be deployed. This new steel development shows that the knife and steel industries are far from stagnant. That's a good thing.

I do have my doubts though; I agree that they reach these awesome hardness and toughness in their knives through case hardening. But, unlike most knives with case hardening, the soft part is at the core, not the spine. This doesn't solve everything though. So what if the knife will not break in two pieces under pretty high stress; if the edge is so hard, I would have thought that during chopping of hard wood or similar (and especially if you hit a rock, etc.) the edge would readily crack, chip, and break off; things that you most definitely don't want. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe this super steel really is tough at RC 69, but maybe not.

But, hey, I want a new super steel as much as the next guy. I hope it really is true. I'm just stating my doubts.
 
The unfortunate thing about terms like "tough" is that they have no well accepted defination. For example CPM-10V viewed as a carbide replacement is very tough as you are comparing it to carbide which is very brittle. However comparing 10V to O1 it is very brittle.

Even worse, people use tough to classify almost anything. I have seen it used as a measure of strength (that is tough to bend) and even machinability (that steel is tough to grind). You really need to ask people what they mean before you can make any kind of prediction off of described properties.

Note one thing concerning most industry applications, they are *much* thicker than knife blades. For example 1095 is ofen described as shallow hardening steel because the hardness only to a depth of 0.040" to 0.080". Well this is pretty much the full thickness of most knives except right at the spine on thicker 1/4" bowies.

I don't know the depth of the hardening that questek uses, but it could easily go the full distance of a deeply ground blade like the BM. You would then end up with a significant portion of the blade being at 69 RC with no core. That would be interesting. If they could alter the depth if would be nice, but then again you need to be careful not to go so shallow that after some sharpening the edge is just core.

What you have is something akin to a differentially tempered blade and one of the problems you will face is that you will have a 69 RC tip for a decent length. Does that sound like a good idea? Or maybe they can only harden a portion of the blade and leave the tip soft (though I really doubt that). Then however you end up with a 54 RC tip that is all core. Again not really great.

However as stated above, any new material gives information, positive or negative you can learn from it all. It will be interesting to see if any blades are made from this and how they perform especially as compared to the other high cobalt alloys like Stellite 6K and Talonite.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 04-12-2001).]
 
Guys --
There has been a misprint above.
The Wired article said that Ferrium is 50 PERCENT harder than other steels.
NOT 50 *times* harder.
Does that make more sense to y'all?
 
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