Will King waterstones sharpen CPMD2/S30V?

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vickmacky

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Mar 11, 2010
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I was almost going to spring for the Edge Pro Apex but I'm actually pretty efficient freehand so thought about getting some true water stones. I'm just not sure how effective they are on these steels or will DMT stones be better. I've searched but couldn't find anything relating specifically to this. I was thinking a 120/400 grit, 250/1000 grit and an 800/4000 grit.
 
Kings are very basic, best on carbon or low alloy stainless. They are about useless on S30V and like steels.

Shapton Glass stones are of the few waterstones that will handle higher wear steels and my preferred sharpening stone. I would recommend the 500 and 2000 with either the 140 or 400 Atoma plate.
 
Hello,

I have a set of King stones, 1000, 4000, 6000 they work in S30v; however it will wear down the stones pretty quick. They work well, but it is pretty slow going sharpening / honing. I would estimate 30-40 passes, 60-90, then 120-150 passes for my stones on S30v to 6000 grit polish. Total time about 45-1 hour.

I also own an edge pro system which is great however for heavy handled knives it can be a bit difficult to control. (In example the busse mean street is ultra thick and heavy). When picking up a edge pro if you do grab some 3M spray adhesive the damn stones fall off the plates if your constantly using it. Total time per knife under 20 min.


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Actually, the Aluminum oxide abrasive in King stones is not even as hard as the carbides found in the steel. So, while you may be scratching the steel you are not actually sharpening it.
 
What are the abrasives in the Shapton Glass stones? I was under the impression they were a form of fired Alumina.

To the OP, I've had luck with the Kings only at the lower grit range - up to 1200 or so. After that they slow down considerably and would not be my choice for high carbide steel.
 
The kings will give you an edge on s30v and regular old d2 I don't have any experience with cpm d2 . It will work if it's all you have ,if your looking to buy the stones id look for something else .

Bester, shapton,chosera all will get you where you need to be . Personally the bester 1200 is one of my favorite stones , I prefer it to shaptons over just the feel of the stone .

Norton will cut them too but IMHO a Norton feels like a cross between a bester and a king , again I'd go bester 1200 , I praise this stone a lot but I really do love it . As long as you don't haft to reprofile the bester 1200 is a good one stone and I love the edges it produces.


Personally I don't like my edges I get from kings on s30v
 
On top of the other stones mentioned, take a look at the Sigma Power II Select. With the exception of the 13,000 grit, they are all silicon carbide and will do the job quite well.
 
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I ended up ordering a Shapton 500 and a Beston 1200. That plus the Sharp maker should have me covered.
 
One more question, is the 1200 high enough for a good edge or do I need something like a 3000/4000 grit fit refinement? I'm not looking for a mirror edge just a good one.

ETA: I was looking at a Shapton 4000 glass stone.
 
I have a Norton 220 grit wet stone for heavy work or tough steels.
I also have a 1000/3000 grit combo Japanese water stone. No idea on the brand as all the text is in Japanese but, 1000 grit cuts very fast and leaves a great finish once I get a bit of a slurry built up on it. I usually stop at 1000 grit and have a shaving edge, hair popping after a strop.

I'll never go back to any other type of stone after using a couple good water stones for the last 10 years or so. They just cut so fast and leave such a good finish for me. I can easily go from the 220 to raise a bur straight to the 1000 to get all the deep cuts out and be done in 5-10 minutes on 154CM or S30.
 
Good to know. I think I have ceramic so I don't know if they are truly water stones but I hope I have the same experience.
 
They are waterstones but they use ceramic abrasives. The Shapton is Splash-n-go while the Bester/Beston is a soaker and will need about 30 minutes in water before it will work correctly.

Although you have selected good stones I don't know why you would pick those two to use in a progression. The Shapton Glass DO NOT PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS, sure, you can mix and match all you want but your results WILL suffer. Every waterstone is unique and my #1 rule in making a set is to always stick to one brand or line of stones. This way you stay consistent with abrasive, feedback, and abrasive size. Speaking of abrasive size, please realize that the numbers you see on waterstones are not universal, just because it says "4000 grit" does not mean it will act like everyother stone in that grit range. Binder, abrasive, abrasive content, stone hardness, rate of stone wear, mud production and type of mud can all play a part in how a waterstone interacts with a specific steel.

So, just because the numbers flow doesn't mean the stones will too.
 
Jason B. said:
They are waterstones but they use ceramic abrasives. The Shapton is Splash-n-go while the Bester/Beston is a soaker and will need about 30 minutes in water before it will work correctly.

Although you have selected good stones I don't know why you would pick those two to use in a progression. The Shapton Glass DO NOT PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS, sure, you can mix and match all you want but your results WILL suffer. Every waterstone is unique and my #1 rule in making a set is to always stick to one brand or line of stones. This way you stay consistent with abrasive, feedback, and abrasive size. Speaking of abrasive size, please realize that the numbers you see on waterstones are not universal, just because it says "4000 grit" does not mean it will act like everyother stone in that grit range. Binder, abrasive, abrasive content, stone hardness, rate of stone wear, mud production and type of mud can all play a part in how a waterstone interacts with a specific steel.

So, just because the numbers flow doesn't mean the stones will too.
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Makes sense. I guess I didn't think it mattered since they're both ceramic stones. Well I already ordered the Bester so I'll stick with it and see how it goes. If I could add another Shapton to the bunch what would you recommend? They have a 2000, 3000 and 4000 grit glass stone. I was thinking 2000 since it seems a lot of people go from the 500 straight to the 2000.
 
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I doubt you'll have any problems switching between manufacturers. Going from 500 to 1200 grit they should be colse enough. I'd be more concerned that 500 won't be course enough for tougher steels.



I mistyped above, my fine stone is 6000 not 3000. I go from 220 to 1000 and then 6000 if I want a polished edge. My 1000 grit stone leaves a good edge
 
vickmacky said:
Makes sense. I guess I didn't think it mattered since they're both ceramic stones. Well I already ordered the Bester so I'll stick with it and see how it goes. If I could add another Shapton to the bunch what would you recommend? They have a 2000, 3000 and 4000 grit glass stone. I was thinking 2000 since it seems a lot of people go from the 500 straight to the 2000.
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I would recommend the 2000, very nice finishing stone.
 
HeavyHanded said:
What are the abrasives in the Shapton Glass stones? I was under the impression they were a form of fired Alumina.

To the OP, I've had luck with the Kings only at the lower grit range - up to 1200 or so. After that they slow down considerably and would not be my choice for high carbide steel.
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Most stone makers are very secretive of their process and what's exactly in the stone. Shapton says a "Finely graded ceramic abrasive" which in reality could mean many things. You could probably compare them best with Spyderco ceramics but at half the hardness of a Spyderco stone. Like the Spyderco ceramics they will handle most any steel but there are some extreme cases that require diamond or CBN.
 
vickmacky said:
One more question, is the 1200 high enough for a good edge or do I need something like a 3000/4000 grit fit refinement? I'm not looking for a mirror edge just a good one.

ETA: I was looking at a Shapton 4000 glass stone.
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The 1200 leaves a nice edge if you do your part . The stone new needs to be lapped out of box .

Mine was very thirsty half hour and it still needed water faster than I could put it on there ,this continued up through a lapping or 2.

I actually permasoaked my bester 1200 for a couple of months and now it behaves normally just a heads up its a sponge when you first get it .

I have a Shapton glass in 1k /4k 4k leaves a nice edge but I rarely use it anymore if interested send me a pm I'd part with it .
 
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