Will King waterstones sharpen CPMD2/S30V?

Jason B. said:
Actually, the Aluminum oxide abrasive in King stones is not even as hard as the carbides found in the steel. So, while you may be scratching the steel you are not actually sharpening it.
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What...? I have no problem sharpening S35VN on my King waterstone. Sure it takes longer than carbon steels, but it still sharpens.

Additionally, here's S30V being flattened and sharpened on KING waterstones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJdtCLIGQm8
 
somber said:
What...? I have no problem sharpening S35VN on my King waterstone. Sure it takes longer than carbon steels, but it still sharpens.

Additionally, here's S30V being flattened and sharpened on KING waterstones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJdtCLIGQm8
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Aluminum oxide is much softer than the Vanadium carbides in the steel so you are only wearing away the matrix while the carbides get polished... Yes, you read that right, polished by the aluminum oxide abrasive. That whole tear out theory is BS IMO.

For someone like me that knows the steel and how it reacts with waterstones I can see the confusion on Murrays face as he inspects the flats after grinding. I know what he was seeing at that moment in the video, it was plastered all over his face, it was the look of "I did all this grinding and it hardly scratched the surface". Sorry bud, you can't fool me.

This is really fun and all but, I'm sick of repeating myself. The information about steels and their alloy contents are widely available. It's well known Vanadium carbides are harder than all but diamond and CBN. I carry Spydercos in S110V and CPM-10v on a DAILY basis along with sharpening a large number of these high alloy steels every year... How many do you do?. And in case you were wondering I own King stones along with most other brands of stones that I have collected... If they worked I would use them because I'm probably one of the few that still like King stones after using most other waterstones. But SURPRISE! I don't because they hardly do anything to these steels, are very inefficient, and yield subpar edges.

You gotta know when to use the right tool for the job...
 
Well, considering I was there when Murray did it (I filmed it with him) I think I know how Murray reacted much better than you and that is not at all what he was saying while sharpening it, only that it took longer to abrade the steel.
 
Great contribution. Like I said, you're not accurate in saying KING water stones can't sharpen S30V. I use them all the time to sharpen my CRK and M4 Ritter.

You act like you're a sharpening God, knifenut. It's hilarious :rolleyes:
 
somber said:
Great contribution. Like I said, you're not accurate in saying KING water stones can't sharpen S30V. I use them all the time to sharpen my CRK and M4 Ritter.

You act like you're a sharpening God, knifenut. It's hilarious :rolleyes:
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You are a troll that decided to come into this thread and see where you could push buttons. Nither his or your word is better than mine so keep on hating hater.
 
I came in this thread because I saw patently false information being posted stating you can't sharpen S30V on KING waterstones. If it can scratch it it can sharpen it.

When presented with video of S30V being sharpened on KING waterstones you poorly try and deflect the evidence.

Pretty sure you're the troll in this situation.

All these years and you haven't changed at all, knifenut
 
Never said you can't, get your story straight.

I've sharpened S30V on a King 1k, it might not have been fast or produce as keen of an edge as harder abrasives but it will get you by. However, I do not promote such usage because I don't feel it's the correct tool for the job. Science kinda backs me on this one.
 
Jason B. said:
Never said you can't, get your story straight.

I've sharpened S30V on a King 1k, it might not have been fast or produce as keen of an edge as harder abrasives but it will get you by. However, I do not promote such usage because I don't feel it's the correct tool for the job. Science kinda backs me on this one.
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So, you're saying that you are actually sharpening it? Because here you say differently:

Jason B. said:
Actually, the Aluminum oxide abrasive in King stones is not even as hard as the carbides found in the steel. So, while you may be scratching the steel you are not actually sharpening it.
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I hope you can understand why these seem like conflicting statements. Because they're the opposite of each other.
 
For the fun of it I just pulled out my 940 and my king 1k it needed a sharpening anyway .

To be fair I ran the edge over the stone a few times to where it couldn't cut magazine paper.

After about 2 minutes of not really heavy grinding mainly just careful strokes a few things . 1 the scratch pattern on s30v like some of the other higher end steels and kings was lighter than on your lower steels .

Another 2 minutes or so give or take mathing the angle from the factory I had made some progress ,small but progress .

Raised the angle from say 20 degrees to 22 23 degrees and did alternating stropping strokes edge is cleanly cutting magazine paper no problem.

Now the king is slower , whether it polished ,or cut or whatever you can't see with the naked eye I do not know how it got there but I have a satisfactory 1k edge on a 940 from a king 1k .

So to say it can't be done your taking my word for it but it can . Do I have stones I reach for first before a king on certain steels ? Yes I do . King has a new stone out or new to me at least IIRC for higher end steels called the KDS IIRC so they must of seen that they could improve on their stones .

I like king stones don't get me wrong always have, recently I tried a king stone on 10v . I welcome anyone else to try this the king just would not cut the 10v .
 
You really need to read the post before you pick out segments to troll with.

Yes, I have sharpened S30V with a king 1k. I do not recommend it because it does poorly and yields a subpar edge compared to a more suitable abrasive. If you were more knowledgable on the subject of steels you would understand that it's really not until you move past 1k or about 15 microns that the abrasive really starts interacting with the carbides in the steel. It's at this point where you see dramatic drops in stone performance and the ability to cut the steel. 1k and under is still fairly coarse so you are removing metal swarf that is larger than the carbides, you will notice the added wear resistance slowing the stone down and becoming progressively worse as you move to finer stones. This is the increasing interaction of the vanadium carbides with the stones abrasive.

So there you have it, now lets see if you can come back with something besides what MC has told you or your weak attempts to insult me.
 
I read the whole post and quoted you in entirety. Let's have a recap:

The first response to the thread was made by knifenut1102 stating that KING waterstones are about useless on S30V:

Jason B. said:
Kings are very basic, best on carbon or low alloy stainless. They are about useless on S30V and like steels.

Shapton Glass stones are of the few waterstones that will handle higher wear steels and my preferred sharpening stone. I would recommend the 500 and 2000 with either the 140 or 400 Atoma plate.
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In response someone makes a statement regarding S30v and their experience sharpening it:

Rutice said:
Hello,

I have a set of King stones, 1000, 4000, 6000 they work in S30v; however it will wear down the stones pretty quick. They work well, but it is pretty slow going sharpening / honing. I would estimate 30-40 passes, 60-90, then 120-150 passes for my stones on S30v to 6000 grit polish. Total time about 45-1 hour.

I also own an edge pro system which is great however for heavy handled knives it can be a bit difficult to control. (In example the busse mean street is ultra thick and heavy). When picking up a edge pro if you do grab some 3M spray adhesive the damn stones fall off the plates if your constantly using it. Total time per knife under 20 min.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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To which you make a follow-up statement about the make-up of the stone and the relation of the hardness to the hardness of the carbides in the steel, stating that while you may be scratching the steel you are not actually sharpening it (???):

Jason B. said:
Actually, the Aluminum oxide abrasive in King stones is not even as hard as the carbides found in the steel. So, while you may be scratching the steel you are not actually sharpening it.
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At this point I quoted you directly and made a statement with my own experience and a video of an individual sharpening S30V on KING waterstones:

somber said:
What...? I have no problem sharpening S35VN on my King waterstone. Sure it takes longer than carbon steels, but it still sharpens.

Additionally, here's S30V being flattened and sharpened on KING waterstones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJdtCLIGQm8
Click to expand...

There may be more efficient mediums to sharpen S30V steel with, but to say that while you may be scratching the steel you are not actually sharpening it, and then come back making a statement such as:

Jason B. said:
Never said you can't, get your story straight.
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I think you need to get your story straight, man.

Fantastic baiting, master trolling.
 
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Yes, they are about useless, but not completely. Would it be better if I said almost useless?

Yes, aluminum oxide is not harder than Vanadium carbide. You would be scratching the surrounding matrix so yes, you are scratching the steel but because of the alloys in the steel you are not completely sharpening it.

You should really educate yourself on steels, it would help this conversation.
 
While I am not educated enough in this subject to contribute I appreciate the information.

So I placed an order for an Atoma 400, Shapton 500 & 2000 glass stones and the Bester 1200. I should be covered for most anything. In the future I'll probably add the Shapton 16000 since that's the third stone in the set they sell.
 
I don't know why everyone is jumping Jason. I for one am going to take every bit of advice this guy has to offer because he has sharpened, I'm guessing, about 5000 more knifes than the next guy. If you don't like his advice why ask it? I think MC is a cool dude too I highly doubt he has the experience Jason does when it comes to super steels and varying waterstones
 
vickmacky said:
While I am not educated enough in this subject to contribute I appreciate the information.

So I placed an order for an Atoma 400, Shapton 500 & 2000 glass stones and the Bester 1200. I should be covered for most anything. In the future I'll probably add the Shapton 16000 since that's the third stone in the set they sell.
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You will be very happy with those choices.

I would probably recommend the SG4k as your next stone, the 16k is cool but I think it's just not as useful as the 4k. IMO, the 16k pairs very well with the SG500, I know it may seem like a big jump but it produces a crazy sharp edge on most knives but especially Japanese kitchen cutlery. Still go for the 4k though.
 
Jason B. said:
You will be very happy with those choices.

I would probably recommend the SG4k as your next stone, the 16k is cool but I think it's just not as useful as the 4k. IMO, the 16k pairs very well with the SG500, I know it may seem like a big jump but it produces a crazy sharp edge on most knives but especially Japanese kitchen cutlery. Still go for the 4k though.
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Not trying to take over but my question fits in; I have a few ShaptonG from 220, 500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 6000. I had acquired them over the years. Should I get the 8000 to achieve more polish?
It will be for S35V, Elmax, S90 V.
Thanks
 
If more polish is what you want then the 8k is the next logical choice. Although, for such high wear steels I would probably switch to diamond or CBN coated strops. The Shaptons might work but you are at such a fine grit the carbides in the steel might overpower the stone.
 
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