Will Spyderco ever release large camping knives such as the Hossoms again?

O

Outdoors Fanatic

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Sep 6, 2007
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I buy Spyderco whenever I can, I love everything about this brand, the blade geometry, fit, finish, ergonomics, steel choices, performance and price point. I own most of the Hossoms, the Street Beat, Temperance2 and the Bushcraft, I love fixed blades in general because they are better than folders for my uses. (make no mistake, I love all tactical folders as well but they an't that pratical deep in the woods)

I'm shopping for a new larg-ish camping blade but Spyderco don't seem to offer anything in that category anymore. So I'm forced to go for Bark River, Fallkniven or Cold Steel. So Mr Sal Glesser or anyone in the know, is there something in the horizon so I could wait now instead of buying another brand? I'd really love another large fixed blade from Spyderco, and I'm pretty sure a lot of people are missing a dedicate large camping blade from this fine brand of blades. A large full flat grind blade (7+ inches), with no recurves, perhaps a small choil, straight or leaf shaped blade and a drop point with agressive G10 or micarta handles and leather sheet would be a dream come true...:)

Cheers!
 
i know they are going to rerelease the rock salt with VG10. maybe that would suffice?
 
gundude73 said:
i know they are going to rerelease the rock salt with VG10. maybe that would suffice?
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I really tried to like that model, but it doesn't fit in my category of a camping knife. The shape, the handles, edge profile, everything about it...

I was also wondering why are most fixed blade knives from Spyderco made outside of the U.S? It would be nice to have something made with American steels just for a change. CPM-3V and CPM-M4 are currently one of the finest steels for large blades.
 
The Schempp Rock will be full flat grind and VG-10 steel, but it will be the same shape as the Rock Salt, for better or worse. Why no US made fixed blades? Two words: production capacity. They are expanding their facilities as fast as they can, and they are running at full capacity on the models they are making there. The choice is simple: contract production to other makers they trust, or don't make the knives at all.

Sal has said several times that Spyderco is known as a folding knife company, and breaking into the fixed blade market is tough. There are a lot of good fixed blade makers out there who don't do folders.
 
yablanowitz said:
The Schempp Rock will be full flat grind and VG-10 steel, but it will be the same shape as the Rock Salt, for better or worse. Why no US made fixed blades? Two words: production capacity. They are expanding their facilities as fast as they can, and they are running at full capacity on the models they are making there. The choice is simple: contract production to other makers they trust, or don't make the knives at all.

Sal has said several times that Spyderco is known as a folding knife company, and breaking into the fixed blade market is tough. There are a lot of good fixed blade makers out there who don't do folders.
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Yes, I agree with that. But how many are doing classic large camping knives, chopping knives, Bowies or hunting knives in premium steels? Fehrman? Busse? They ain't no mass produce makers selling everywhere, they are pretty much niche makers that even most knife loving people outside of specialty forums and knife shows never heard of. On the other hand, Spyderco is a HUGE name. Plenty of makers are doing cheap to mid-range fixed blades in ordinary stainless and carbon steels, almost no one is doing it using premium steels. (besides custom makers)

I have never held and used a large camping blade that felt as nice and natural as the Spyderco Jerry Hossom Forager or Forrester, not from Cold Steel, not from ESSE, Ontario, or Busse, or from Fallkniven or Bark River. That speaks volume about the latent potential Spyderco got in this market... Just my .2
 
the hossum series are great under $200 what a deal........
i hope they bring new models to the fixed blade, like cold steel offers various models,you know they would sell fast..............
 
For the most part, in order for a given knife to stay in the lineup, it has to sell enough units to make it worthwhile. So far, Spyderco fixed blades really haven't done that. From what Sal has said in the past, he keeps the Moran going more as a tribute to Jerry than because it sells well. Spyderco may loom huge on a few internet forums and among the more knowledgeable knife people, but try walking down the street asking people about Spyderco. For every person that knows what you are talking about, I'll bet you get a hundred blank looks. Small company, niche market describes them well, and unfortunately that niche isn't fixed blades. Yet. Sal keeps trying.

The other thing is, those premium materials don't come cheap. Neither does the labor to turn them into premium knives. A custom maker is expected to get those prices, a production maker isn't. Does that make it easier to produce the knife? Take a close look at your Hossum/Spyderco knives and try to imagine how much hand work went into them. Then try to imagine doing that a thousand times. Then try to figure out why people complained about the price. Heck, I bought mine on the cheap, and I know they were worth MSRP on labor alone. That doesn't mean I was willing to part with that much money for them.

For a production company to make it, they have to appeal to the average Joe. We knife knuts may disparage those people, but the fact is, they outnumber us severely, they buy a lot more knives than we do, and they see no sense in spending the kind of money on a knife that we take for granted.
 
yablanowitz said:
For the most part, in order for a given knife to stay in the lineup, it has to sell enough units to make it worthwhile. So far, Spyderco fixed blades really haven't done that. From what Sal has said in the past, he keeps the Moran going more as a tribute to Jerry than because it sells well. Spyderco may loom huge on a few internet forums and among the more knowledgeable knife people, but try walking down the street asking people about Spyderco. For every person that knows what you are talking about, I'll bet you get a hundred blank looks. Small company, niche market describes them well, and unfortunately that niche isn't fixed blades. Yet. Sal keeps trying.

The other thing is, those premium materials don't come cheap. Neither does the labor to turn them into premium knives. A custom maker is expected to get those prices, a production maker isn't. Does that make it easier to produce the knife? Take a close look at your Hossum/Spyderco knives and try to imagine how much hand work went into them. Then try to imagine doing that a thousand times. Then try to figure out why people complained about the price. Heck, I bought mine on the cheap, and I know they were worth MSRP on labor alone. That doesn't mean I was willing to part with that much money for them.

For a production company to make it, they have to appeal to the average Joe. We knife knuts may disparage those people, but the fact is, they outnumber us severely, they buy a lot more knives than we do, and they see no sense in spending the kind of money on a knife that we take for granted.
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Well, to be sucessful in type of market you have to think and act like a venture capitalist, you need to take some risks. I have complete faith that Spyderco can do well in this market. A Sprint Run should be a great start...

Heck, Cold Steel is able to sell overpriced "tactical scarfs" and "walking sticks of death" so what makes you think that Spyderco couldn't sell a serious tool for the discriminating outdoorsmen? We're not talking about some extremely impractical piece of useless novelty item appealing to a few geeks and weirdos, it's nothing but a sober high-performace camping/utility knife, just a lil bit larger than Spyderco's current line of excelent fixed blades.

Cheers.
 
What makes me think that? History. Cold Steel targets mall ninjas and wannabes with their marketing, and that market segment is a lot bigger than that occupied by the serious users Spyderco courts.

As for a Sprint Run for a start, a sprint of what? What existing Spyderco product that the development and testing has already been done and the tooling already exists for would you like to see return? A sprint of a new model is pretty much guaranteed financial disaster. Bringing a new product to market costs many thousands of dollars. Trying to recover a $250,000 investment on a 600 or even 1200 piece run? Not gonna happen. The BushcraftUK Spalted Maple disaster hurt enough to convince most people to get out of that market, but Sal is still in there swinging.

Why not design your ideal camp knife, get one of the custom makers to build you a couple of prototypes and pitch it to Sal as a collaboration model?
 
yablanowitz said:
What makes me think that? History. Cold Steel targets mall ninjas and wannabes with their marketing, and that market segment is a lot bigger than that occupied by the serious users Spyderco courts.

As for a Sprint Run for a start, a sprint of what? What existing Spyderco product that the development and testing has already been done and the tooling already exists for would you like to see return? A sprint of a new model is pretty much guaranteed financial disaster. Bringing a new product to market costs many thousands of dollars. Trying to recover a $250,000 investment on a 600 or even 1200 piece run? Not gonna happen. The BushcraftUK Spalted Maple disaster hurt enough to convince most people to get out of that market, but Sal is still in there swinging.

Why not design your ideal camp knife, get one of the custom makers to build you a couple of prototypes and pitch it to Sal as a collaboration model?
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actually that is not entirely true IMHO. The Spalted Maple was not a total disaster (financially, yes it hurt, but selling out the "seconds" helped recoup some of the losses) and the knife is held in very high regard. They sold out of the "seconds" rather fast, and Sal brought it back in G10, and from reading posts and trying to buy one, it took me a couple of days to find one that had in stock and was not sold out. Its a fantastic knife, super sharp and great ergo, and I think it is a great start for Spyderco into the fixed blade arena.
 
Outdoors Fanatic said:
So I'm forced to go for Bark River, Fallkniven or Cold Steel.
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Why? You should definitely look at ESEE and Becker. ESEE is kind of like the spyderco of fixed blades in my opinion. Superb quality and ridiculously awesome customer service. Plus, ESEE and Becker will be a lot easier on your wallet than BK or fallk.
 
Jake Bauer said:
Why? You should definitely look at ESEE and Becker. ESEE is kind of like the spyderco of fixed blades in my opinion. Superb quality and ridiculously awesome customer service. Plus, ESEE and Becker will be a lot easier on your wallet than BK or fallk.
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I really like ESSE knives, but I was looking for something with a non-coated blade made with high quality stainless steel. (that's why I've made this thread, because the market is lacking this type of knife).
I will eventually buy a Junglass to pair up with my RC-4... I'm just not too crazy to get one now, because it is too similar to my Busses and other choppers. I want a different flavor of blade, something with the Spyderco style, more "Bushcrafty" and not so "rough lumber jack's blade" type.
 
As Sal mentions often concerning the price of the Temperance 2, it's nearly a custom knife with all the hand fitting that goes into making it.
I would love to see a 9" temperance, but as usual, people have so many different preferences that sales probably wouldn't make up development costs.

If you want a camping knife in premium steel, you might be best off to get a custom made knife. There are probably more custom makers doing fixed blades than anything else, so it shouldn't be hard to find what you are looking for.
 
arijer said:
actually that is not entirely true IMHO. The Spalted Maple was not a total disaster (financially, yes it hurt, but selling out the "seconds" helped recoup some of the losses) and the knife is held in very high regard. They sold out of the "seconds" rather fast, and Sal brought it back in G10, and from reading posts and trying to buy one, it took me a couple of days to find one that had in stock and was not sold out. Its a fantastic knife, super sharp and great ergo, and I think it is a great start for Spyderco into the fixed blade arena.
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Having followed the saga of the BushcraftUK from the beginning, I can't classify the first run as anything less than financial disaster. When 90% of a production run has to be sold at a loss, I just can't describe it any other way. The price the seconds sold for wouldn't cover the labor for what they went through trying to save them. Maybe Sal wrote the whole run off as "advertising". It's a great knife, I like mine far more than I ever thought I would, but I wouldn't have bought one (much less the two I did) at the market price, so I guess it could be considered effective advertising. I'm glad Sal didn't give up on the model, and I'm happy that it seems to be selling well.
 
Outdoors Fanatic said:
I'd like to hear Mr Sal Glesser's opinion on this... But heck yeah, I'd love to send a prototype his way, for sure!
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I think we did hear his opinion...he commissioned a great series of collaboration knives, took the risk to put them into production, found they didn't sell well...and discontinued them, closing out the inventory at a very steep discount. :( Once burned, twice shy, I am guessing.
 
Outdoors Fanatic said:
Well, to be sucessful in type of market you have to think and act like a venture capitalist, you need to take some risks. I have complete faith that Spyderco can do well in this market. A Sprint Run should be a great start...

Heck, Cold Steel is able to sell overpriced "tactical scarfs" and "walking sticks of death" so what makes you think that Spyderco couldn't sell a serious tool for the discriminating outdoorsmen? We're not talking about some extremely impractical piece of useless novelty item appealing to a few geeks and weirdos, it's nothing but a sober high-performace camping/utility knife, just a lil bit larger than Spyderco's current line of excelent fixed blades.

Cheers.
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Keep in mind, Cold Steel does not make anything. They are basically a design house that farms out their designs to various makers around the world. They are a marketing machine with their videos plastered all over youtube. The term venture capitalist and Sal Glesser just do not belong in the same sentence.

JNewell said:
I think we did hear his opinion...he commissioned a great series of collaboration knives, took the risk to put them into production, found they didn't sell well...and discontinued them, closing out the inventory at a very steep discount. :( Once burned, twice shy, I am guessing.
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I think I also remember Sal mentioning to some extent the cost of making a fixed blade in a market dominated by so many other makers was something that would not make sense.
 
Does the manufacture of a fixed blade require as much tooling as a folder?
Provided the folder and the fixed knife both require a new set up of the machinery.

I always thought making a fixed blade would be easier than a folder?
Fixed knife = blade + 2 handle slabs (+ guard or lanyard)
Folder: more fine parts that have to be made and put together.

When I see the prices of these two Bôkers I wonder why they cost the same?
The material used should be no factor in this case

http://www.boker.de/fahrtenmesser/boeker-plus/outdoormesser/02BO240.html
http://www.boker.de/taschenmesser/boeker-plus/innovative-taschenmesser/01BO185.html

If you look at Kershaw there is indeed a price difference between a folder an fixed blade

PackRat
Field Knife

:confused:
 
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