Will Spyderco ever release large camping knives such as the Hossoms again?

[philwar]

First off, I love how a question about Spyderco fixed blades can degenerate into another Cold Steel bashing thread.
Secondly, Spyderco has the challenge to design and produce a fixed blade that distinguishes itself from all other ones AND is practical, affordable and of high quality - like their folders are. This is a lot harder to do with FB's than with folders. A good outdoors FB has a few general design parameters it has to incorporate, and if it doesn't, it's a niche knife, but if it does, it's already been done before, about a million times in fact. The differences between all the manufacturers are minimal really, and Spyderco is not a brand that would just add itself to those ranks.

The Spyderco fans (of which I am one) would probably buy another drop point 5-8" 4mm thick camp knife if they made it, but would it really add anything? I don't believe mr Glesser thinks so, and that's why they don't produce it, nor any other 'staple' knife that is already being offered by everyone else.
The Hossoms are very nice, I imagine the largest one makes a good camp knife, but they still deliberately distinguish themselves from 'ordinary' large FB's. It's just a Spyderco thing. I don't see them ever making a direct ESEE, Cold Steel or Fallkniven competitor. Not because they can't, but because they don't want to.

 

[Neo]

Spyderco is indeed known for the folders, but also for innovation.
That means besides new designs also new materials, new steel.
Spyderco is ahead of the pack in the usa (besides kershaw) in trying new kinds of quality blades.
Combine the innovative materials with the cooperation of a great designer and succes will follow.

I like the designs of Tommaso Rumici for instance
http://www.coltellerialagona.it/shop/images/product_images/d_3827.jpg
http://www.coltellerialagona.it/shop/images/product_images/d_3828.jpg
http://www.coltellerialagona.it/shop/images/product_images/d_3308.jpg
http://www.coltellerialagona.it/shop/images/product_images/d_3309.jpg

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

First off, I love how a question about Spyderco fixed blades can degenerate into another Cold Steel bashing thread.
Secondly, Spyderco has the challenge to design and produce a fixed blade that distinguishes itself from all other ones AND is practical, affordable and of high quality - like their folders are. This is a lot harder to do with FB's than with folders. A good outdoors FB has a few general design parameters it has to incorporate, and if it doesn't, it's a niche knife, but if it does, it's already been done before, about a million times in fact. The differences between all the manufacturers are minimal really, and Spyderco is not a brand that would just add itself to those ranks.

The Spyderco fans (of which I am one) would probably buy another drop point 5-8" 4mm thick camp knife if they made it, but would it really add anything? I don't believe mr Glesser thinks so, and that's why they don't produce it, nor any other 'staple' knife that is already being offered by everyone else.
The Hossoms are very nice, I imagine the largest one makes a good camp knife, but they still deliberately distinguish themselves from 'ordinary' large FB's. It's just a Spyderco thing. I don't see them ever making a direct ESEE, Cold Steel or Fallkniven competitor. Not because they can't, but because they don't want to.

I love how a question about Spyderco fixed blades can degenerate into another Cold Steel bashing thread.

I never bashed Cold Steel, I just stated there is a market for every type of product. Cold Steel faces the same challenges as Spyderco and everyone else in this industry when it comes to designing, manufacturing, outsourcing, advertising, marketing and then selling its products.

A good outdoors FB has a few general design parameters it has to incorporate, and if it doesn't, it's a niche knife, but if it does, it's already been done before, about a million times in fact. The differences between all the manufacturers are minimal really, and Spyderco is not a brand that would just add itself to those ranks.

Can you please point me out to one of those "million" of knives like the one I'm describing in this thread? Because frankly, I'm looking hard for a large fixed camp knife in premium stainless steel with regular geometry, a plain V-grind edge and I'm yet to come across one in production... I'm not talking about brute carbon steel choppers, exotic stuff like khurkris, tacticool knives or novelty blades.

The Hossoms are very nice, I imagine the largest one makes a good camp knife, but they still deliberately distinguish themselves from 'ordinary' large FB's.

They are all excellent. The reason I don't use them a lot, it's because they are rare now and they are heavily recurved and full convex. I suspect this is the reason they are not more popular among alot of knife enthusiast outrdoorsmen with regular sharpening tools.

I don't see them ever making a direct ESEE, Cold Steel or Fallkniven competitor. Not because they can't, but because they don't want to

They don't have to compete directly, because they are not even making the same type of products in the first place.

ESSE: General utility, tactical and survival knives. All coated, all plain carbon steel, simple designs, tough, effective, somewhat less refined than tradicional bushcraft/camp knives. Probably the best bang for the buck in the market.

Cold Steel: a crapload of fighting and tactical knives, some Bowies and big campers, most coated and in cheap carbon steel. None made using premium steels.

Fallkniven: sell knives priced like or above many customs in the market. All sporting convex edges, most with plastic handles and mid-end steel. Most have that military/survival looks. Their Bowies are awesome, bu they are convex and in laminate VG-10. Not are made using the lastest generation of high-end steels.

 

[termiteslayer]

I buy Spyderco whenever I can, I love everything about this brand, the blade geometry, fit, finish, ergonomics, steel choices, performance and price point. I own most of the Hossoms, the Street Beat, Temperance2 and the Bushcraft, I love fixed blades in general because they are better than folders for my uses. (make no mistake, I love all tactical folders as well but they an't that pratical deep in the woods)

I'm shopping for a new larg-ish camping blade but Spyderco don't seem to offer anything in that category anymore. So I'm forced to go for Bark River, Fallkniven or Cold Steel. So Mr Sal Glesser or anyone in the know, is there something in the horizon so I could wait now instead of buying another brand? I'd really love another large fixed blade from Spyderco, and I'm pretty sure a lot of people are missing a dedicate large camping blade from this fine brand of blades. A large full flat grind blade (7+ inches), with no recurves, perhaps a small choil, straight or leaf shaped blade and a drop point with agressive G10 or micarta handles and leather sheet would be a dream come true...

Cheers!

My Forester was my first 'quality' big knife purchase. I've had crappy big knives before that got me by fine, I just wanted something that was designed and built well. I got a couple of other big choppers that were supposed to be yards better than my Forester. They cost considerably more, too.
All I have to say is that a (lets just say the brand name rhymes with hussy) or two will be for sale in the next couple of months, my Forester will never go on the exchange.
Hossom designed a legitimate tool with this one... not a Rambo/psycho thing that a lot of people seem to desire.
Excellent tool, very functional, well balanced and a very reasonable weight to carry strapped to a pack. It absolutely kicked some serious butt on my totally unverifiable chop tests... it spanked my 'hussies' (the weight of the knife compared to the actual penetration achieved). I didn't drive a tank over it, so maybe my Forester is just a POS .
I would love to see some more woodsman focused collabs. Too bad they aren't more in demand.
I'm just glad that people like Hossom, Gayle Bradley and many others have worked with Sal to give us a taste of what different knife makers can do.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

My Forester was my first 'quality' big knife purchase. I've had crappy big knives before that got me by fine, I just wanted something that was designed and built well. I got a couple of other big choppers that were supposed to be yards better than my Forester. They cost considerably more, too.
All I have to say is that a (lets just say the brand name rhymes with hussy) or two will be for sale in the next couple of months, my Forester will never go on the exchange.
Hossom designed a legitimate tool with this one... not a Rambo/psycho thing that a lot of people seem to desire.
Excellent tool, very functional, well balanced and a very reasonable weight to carry strapped to a pack. It absolutely kicked some serious butt on my totally unverifiable chop tests... it spanked my 'hussies' (the weight of the knife compared to the actual penetration achieved). I didn't drive a tank over it, so maybe my Forester is just a POS .
I would love to see some more woodsman focused collabs. Too bad they aren't more in demand.
I'm just glad that people like Hossom, Gayle Bradley and many others have worked with Sal to give us a taste of what different knife makers can do.

I couldn't have said it better! :thumbup:

Sal, listen this guy!

 

[Ruff Cobb]

I read a while back, maybe another forum, that Phil Wilson was doing a collaboration with Sal/Spyderco. I, for one, am anxious to see what this product will look like. Ruff Cobb

 

[SaMX]

Does the manufacture of a fixed blade require as much tooling as a folder?
Provided the folder and the fixed knife both require a new set up of the machinery.

I always thought making a fixed blade would be easier than a folder?
Fixed knife = blade + 2 handle slabs (+ guard or lanyard)
Folder: more fine parts that have to be made and put together.

When I see the prices of these two Bôkers I wonder why they cost the same?
The material used should be no factor in this case

http://www.boker.de/fahrtenmesser/boeker-plus/outdoormesser/02BO240.html
http://www.boker.de/taschenmesser/boeker-plus/innovative-taschenmesser/01BO185.html

If you look at Kershaw there is indeed a price difference between a folder an fixed blade

PackRat
Field Knife

I've been thinking the same thing. Something like a simple full tang blade with molded FRN handle scales screwed onto it could probably be manufactured more cheaply than an endura or delica made of the same materials. Instead all of spyderco's recent fixed blades have seemed to gone the "near custom" route, which seems to drive away a lot of potential customers who see spyderco as a high "bang for your buck" brand.

Sal knows a lot more about the knife business then I do though, so maybe I'm missing something.

 

[yablanowitz]

You may be missing the minor detail that a new mold for FRN parts can easily cost $50,000 to $80,000 to manufacture. That's a big reason for the Salt series folders to continue using the existing molds from earlier FRN knives rather than having new handles made up specially for them. That's why the Sage3 is G-10 instead of FRN (which would have been more appropriate since Blackie Collins pioneered FRN handles), because the molds were too expensive for the project.

 

[SaMX]

True. On the other hand the micarta handled fixed blades spyderco has made all seem to have had extensively contoured handles, which I'm sure adds quite a bit to the price. Esee on the other hand seems to just use flat slabs of micarta, with radiused edges. I'm sure the contoured handles improves the ergonomics, I'm sure it also contributed to the cost that led to the "for that price I might as well get a custom" reaction some people had to the bushcraft.

Plus, the caspian and aqua salts both had FRN handles, that defnitely required new molds, and those knives were fairly affordable.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Don't do FRN molds, this material is not good for a no-nonsense Woodsman type of knife. Paper micarta or G10 is good enough, natural materials such as stabilized woods or bones are nice to have but it's not needed nor feasible on a production knife.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

True. On the other hand the micarta handled fixed blades spyderco has made all seem to have had extensively contoured handles, which I'm sure adds quite a bit to the price. Esee on the other hand seems to just use flat slabs of micarta, with radiused edges. I'm sure the contoured handles improves the ergonomics, I'm sure it also contributed to the cost that led to the "for that price I might as well get a custom" reaction some people had to the bushcraft.

Plus, the caspian and aqua salts both had FRN handles, that defnitely required new molds, and those knives were fairly affordable.

Agressive texturing trumps beautiful 3D countouring in actual use. The Temperance 2 is a good example of that, well-made countouring that feels comfortable, but with relatively poor grip due to the lack of texturing. Flat slabs of textured G10 would be a heck alot better...

 

[SaMX]

I'm not trying to criticize spyderco's choices in handle design or material directly.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I think it's odd that most of spyderco's recent fixed blade designs are in what I would call the "very high end" category. for example, it is entirely possible for spyderco to make a fixed blade that's the same size, quality, and materials as an endura, and have it cost the same, or even a little less than an endura.

If I were in charge of spyderco, and I was trying to break into the fixed blade market, I would try to hit every price point: the byrd price point, the delica/endura price point, and the titanium military pricepoint. I'd also probably focus on the lower price points, because there would probably be a bigger sales volume to help recover the costs of tooling up, and customers spending big bucks on a fixed blade would probably be more likely to go with a "safe" choice than an unusual design from a company they don't have very much experience with.

but like I said before, I don't have the kind of experience with the knife industry that Sal has, so I could be completely off base.

 

[Hombre Secreto]

>>> I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I think it's odd that most of spyderco's recent fixed blade designs are in what I would call the "very high end" category. for example, it is entirely possible for spyderco to make a fixed blade that's the same size, quality, and materials as an endura, and have it cost the same, or even a little less than an endura.

They made one... the Aqua Salt.

 

[JNewell]

The thing is that Spyderco isn't (trying to break into the fixed blade market at every price point).

I'm not trying to criticize spyderco's choices in handle design or material directly.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I think it's odd that most of spyderco's recent fixed blade designs are in what I would call the "very high end" category. for example, it is entirely possible for spyderco to make a fixed blade that's the same size, quality, and materials as an endura, and have it cost the same, or even a little less than an endura.

If I were in charge of spyderco, and I was trying to break into the fixed blade market, I would try to hit every price point: the byrd price point, the delica/endura price point, and the titanium military pricepoint. I'd also probably focus on the lower price points, because there would probably be a bigger sales volume to help recover the costs of tooling up, and customers spending big bucks on a fixed blade would probably be more likely to go with a "safe" choice than an unusual design from a company they don't have very much experience with.

but like I said before, I don't have the kind of experience with the knife industry that Sal has, so I could be completely off base.