Will this knife design be strong enough?

I gave a concise answer that may have been misconstrued. There are several structural problems with the design as shown.Most have been pointed out. Many inexpensive Pakistani knives are made this way to look like integrals, but are deceptive. If you want an integral, make one. The idea you have is doable but not optimal. For a hidden tang, I would have at least a solid 3/8" tang or a 1/2X1/4 profile. The strongest would be an integral with a full tang. Mike's method would create a stick tang, but why go to all that work when it can be made from the stock while milling and machining the blade? Thinking outside the box is good, I just think you over thought this one. I do applaud you for working on the design and holding it up for peer review. On this forum that takes guts. Sorry about the short original answer.
Stacy
 
i always wondered how they did it for the randall attack-survival knife. maybe you should look it up.
 
B . Buxton said:
Well it was just my opinion and it still is, I give/gave you credit for an interesting idea, but thats still not an integral, by claiming it as one I feel your taking credit away from people that make integrals as they are suppose to be made. Claim it to be something other then an integral and run with it, but again this is just my opinion. You are using a mill, the ones I've made are full integral and were done using a belt grinder, a band saw and some files, so the work issue doesn't mean much to me. Sorry if I might have rained on anyones parade, but the question was asked and I just gave my opinion, thats all.

Bill
Click to expand...

I understand your point. By no means I was going to take credit for my "fake" integral as "real" integral. First I don't sell them and second I am also making "real" integrals(So far I am on my second one).
The idea was to make a knife that has an integral bolster but easier to make than full integral without sacrificing too much strength.
I had a 1/2" stainless bolt at home and tried to bend/break it with a vise and a cheater bar. My conclusion that it'll be absolutely impossible to break it or even bend it when it's a part of the knife.
I am going to try to make a "fake" integral from 1"x1" 1086 and give it a good beating to see if it survives.

Thanks,
for your input,
Alex





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Your idea has been done many times in past years...This is the usual method for people trying to reproduce a Samuel Bell Bowie and dont know how to forge in the tang or dont want to take the extra time to do it.The forged tang is stronger but your method will work just fine and will pass the 2X4 chopping test.The one thing I can suggest if you go with the threaded rod is to flatten the sides of the rod after inserting it into the bolster area,Then make sure and have the buttcap made to thread on the rod to hold the handle.The flat sides of the rod are to keep the handle material from turning on a round rod.

You can silver braze the rod into the threads and that sucker will not come out and save allot of welding cleanup...

So my 2 cents say----It Has been done - Will be done again- so go for it if that is how you want to make it,just dont call it a full integral....It is called a integral bolster with a threaded rod tang.

Bruce

PS,Without nameing names I will just add that some Mastersmiths I know and some big name makers have used this tang settup for years...
 
Great! So it's been tested.
Here some pictures. Just by looking at pictures you can say this construction(1"x1.5" bar and 1/2" bolt) is very strong. I am sure I can safely use smaller bolt diameter.
5-21-200711-28-11PM_0001.jpg

5-21-200711-29-26PM_0010.jpg
 
Alex, maybe I missed something, but wouldn't it be simpler (and without strength issues) to forge out a tang on the end of that 3/4" chunk of steel? Then you could mill the rest if you wanted, or even forge it even closer to final shape before milling, filing, etc.
 
Chris Meyer said:
Alex, maybe I missed something, but wouldn't it be simpler (and without strength issues) to forge out a tang on the end of that 3/4" chunk of steel? Then you could mill the rest if you wanted, or even forge it even closer to final shape before milling, filing, etc.
Click to expand...

Yes, it would be easier to forge. I just don't know how and don't have any equipment. :(
 
definitely will be over kill strong with a 1/2" ss bolt, I helped a friend rig bass boats a few years ago, and all the motors were mounted with 1/2" ss bolts. If you can torque that knife harder then a 200 hp mercury, the 1/2" ss bolt is all you'll have left. :)

Happy milling,

Bill
 
3/8 rod will work fine.If you use a bolt you will have to cut off the head and thread that end some to add a nut to lock the handle assembly together,this can be a threaded buttcap.....just remeber when setting the rod to center it to your bolster area because if you dont the rod will show through in the final milling and weaken the knife and also look really bad:eek: :D

Good Luck,
Bruce
 
alexmin said:
Yes, it would be easier to forge. I just don't know how and don't have any equipment. :(
Click to expand...

Dooh!, I thought you were a forger. Never mind... :o

Of course, it's never to late to get a forge and start pounding some steel. The neighbors will love you for it. :D
 
Chris Meyer said:
Dooh!, I thought you were a forger. Never mind... :o

Of course, it's never to late to get a forge and start pounding some steel. The neighbors will love you for it. :D
Click to expand...

Especially considering that most houses in San Francisco are side by side with no space between them. It's probably illegal to use gas forge in the city residential area too. :(
 
I agree with Bruce... I bet these forum members would be surprised at just how often this method is used.

I've made some test knives this well and I was not able to break them at that joint. I also made the tang from tool steel and heat-treated it to a spring temper, so I'm pretty sure that helped. I only threaded enough of the tang to run up into the hole... so when it was in place, it pretty much looked like a regular forged hidden tang integral.

The problem with a design like this is that it's different from what a lot of people think of as standard... so it goes against the grain.

Here's my advice, make one, test the hell out of it, and post what you find. :D
 
H'mmmmm

I like the way it looks and I bet it's STRONG AS HELL.

I'd also like to hear how the tube survival knives from Randall, Lile, RJMarting etc are done. I have Randall Model 18 and I'm guessing the the tube threads down on to a good sized stub . Ohhhhhhhhhhhh that would be a semi-integral.

I also didn't mean to whiz on your parade and I apologize if you took it like that.

Syn
 
Guys

do you know what stainless type for the rod will have the best strength?
McMaster has following:
17-4PH, 416, 303, 304, 440C
 
I guess maybe I missed something...which is pretty usual for me...

The original question was...

"Is this strong enough?" is something to that affect/effect...

Alexmin asked for clarity..I agree...then thread went...all by itself...without any more information....

Can you be a little more clear...

For what is this knife intended to be used?

If you say..I am making really cool letter openers...then I say go for it!

But possibly...it may not be a great design...for say...prying open steel drums?!?

Nevertheless...there are a lot of great minds here...at your disposal...who can guide you on your way...and all of them are smarter than me...

And 01 is by all accounts...good steel for blades...

By the pic..I cannot get an idea/feel for blade geometry...

Good luck.

Shane
 
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