Will this motor work for a GIB?

S

sargentcrunch

Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
27
The specs for the motor are

H.P= 1
Volts= 208-230/460
Amps= 3.7-3.4/1.7
RPM= 1725
Frame= 56C
HZ= 60
PH= 3

I am new to motors, so I don't know 100% what I am looking for. But from what I understand you want 1725rpm for grinders, and for the GIB the website says it was built to use a 56c face. So I want to double check before I buy this motor, I don't want to drive all the way and pick it up only to find out its not what I need. haha

Thanks!
 
For that motor you need a VFD and 1hp really is bare minimum.

I would pass on that.
 
AVigil said:
For that motor you need a VFD and 1hp really is bare minimum.

I would pass on that.
Click to expand...

Yep. Unless you've got the VFD already or are getting the motor in the <$50 range, pass. 1HP is good, but 2HP is better, and the 3ph motor you referenced won't run off standard house current without a VFD or phase converter.
 
Oh ok, thanks guys. So 2hp is recommended? Also, I can't afford a VFD right now, so I was thinking of getting a single phase motor. How can I tell if a motor will run off a standard house current?
Also, I have heard that all that matters for the GIB kit is that the motor is a 'C Face' motor. So could I get another frame motor as long as the frame number ends with a C?

Thanks
-Bryan
 
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The motor spec plate will say what phase it runs on. Usually there is a spot marked phase or just Ph. And will say 1 or 3. If you don't want a VFD off the start you will need a motor that runs on 1 phase instead of 3 phase. You will also need to determine if you have access to 240v or 120v where the grinder will be. If you don't have 240 available to run the grinder, a 2hp motor is likely out of the question as they draw too much current for a standard 15 amp plug circuit. What do you have available for power in the grinder area?
 
How about a primer on what the stuff on the motor means?

56= frame size. It means it has a 5/8" shaft, among other things. Look up NEMA motor specifications for more specs.
C face= face mount
120/208-230/460= voltage ranges the motor runs on. You probably want a 120/208-230 motor. 120 is normal house voltage. A dryer or welder run on 220. 120 limits you to 1.5 hp, but unless you have a 220 volt outlet in your garage or want to share space with the clothes dryer, you're kind of stuck.
Amps= notice how when the volts go up it takes less amperage to run the motor. 1.7-460, 3.4-230, ~6.8-120. Cool huh?
Rpm-try to find one with 1750 rpms if you're going to build a single speed grinder. 3400 is the other speed you'll likely see, but it is going to be pretty fast in a single speed setup.
Hz=60 is USA spec, 50 is overseas. We can't use theirs, they can't use ours.
PH= phase. Normal power is single phase, or 1. If you have a 3 ph motor, you have to use a variable frequency drive (vfd) to transform single phase to triple phase. However, a vfd does allow you to control/vary the speed of the motor. A VFD can be 120/1ph in-220V/3ph out or 220/1ph in-220V/3ph out.They vary.
 
Brian.Evans said:
How about a primer on what the stuff on the motor means?

56= frame size. It means it has a 5/8" shaft, among other things. Look up NEMA motor specifications for more specs.
C face= face mount
120/208-230/460= voltage ranges the motor runs on. You probably want a 120/208-230 motor. 120 is normal house voltage. A dryer or welder run on 220. 120 limits you to 1.5 hp, but unless you have a 220 volt outlet in your garage or want to share space with the clothes dryer, you're kind of stuck.
Amps= notice how when the volts go up it takes less amperage to run the motor. 1.7-460, 3.4-230, ~6.8-120. Cool huh?
Rpm-try to find one with 1750 rpms if you're going to build a single speed grinder. 3400 is the other speed you'll likely see, but it is going to be pretty fast in a single speed setup.
Hz=60 is USA spec, 50 is overseas. We can't use theirs, they can't use ours.
PH= phase. Normal power is single phase, or 1. If you have a 3 ph motor, you have to use a variable frequency drive (vfd) to transform single phase to triple phase. However, a vfd does allow you to control/vary the speed of the motor. A VFD can be 120/1ph in-220V/3ph out or 220/1ph in-220V/3ph out.They vary.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, its very informative, so I am now looking for a max of 1.5hp 1750rpm, C face, single phase. I am gonna read up on the NEMA motor specs, and learn some more.

Thanks!
 
I've used 1HP motors with step pulleys and it will work.

A 1 1/2HP with a VDF or step pulleys won't falter if you really want to hog off metal. So are you going to make smaller knives? like 5" blades or less? 1 HP.

Or everything including 7"-11" culinary and Bowies? Go for at least the 1 1/2HP.
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
I've used 1HP motors with step pulleys and it will work.

A 1 1/2HP with a VDF or step pulleys won't falter if you really want to hog off metal. So are you going to make smaller knives? like 5" blades or less? 1 HP.

Or everything including 7"-11" culinary and Bowies? Go for at least the 1 1/2HP.
Click to expand...

For my first knife, I plan on doing a smaller knife, but I would like to get into making 7-12 inch knives eventually. Is a 1hp motor just not capable of doing it? This is all a new thing to me, so I am trying to learn as much as I can about the technical side.
 
WAtch the amps, make sure you can plug it into the circuts you have without having to install new breakers outlets and wire.
 
12345678910 said:
WAtch the amps, make sure you can plug it into the circuts you have without having to install new breakers outlets and wire.
Click to expand...

This. Figure out which outlet you're going to want to plug the machine into. Then find the breaker that controls that outlet. Then, find out what else, if anything, is on that circuit. Coffee maker, lights, etc. in my shop one of my outlets shares space with the lights. Stupid electrician. So check that and get back to us.
 
so I've got a question on the FLA... If both motors are 1.5 hp how is one 35% higher on the FLA rating? Is that because one of the motors(the one with the lower FLA rating) is much more efficient at producing the 1.5 hp of power and therefore is drawing less current to do so? The efficiency rating on the one with the lower FLA is 76% but I can't find it listed on the other one.
 
I will give a different thought.

That first 3Ph motor with a VFD would have a total cost of barely more than a plain 1Ph motor. This would allow you to run a GIB just fine....and have VS which is a much more valuable asset on a grinder than an extra 1/2HP. 1HP will work fine for most tasks. When the time comes for a bigger motor, you can build or buy a second grinder and have two...which is what many makers do.

A 1Hp VFD is very reasonable now days, running between $75 and $150.

What is probably the most important is if you only have 110/120VAc or if your shop has 220/240VAC. If you have 220 power, you can use all sorts of larger motors.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I will give a different thought.

That first 3Ph motor with a VFD would have a total cost of barely more than a plain 1Ph motor. This would allow you to run a GIB just fine....and have VS which is a much more valuable asset on a grinder than an extra 1/2HP. 1HP will work fine for most tasks. When the time comes for a bigger motor, you can build or buy a second grinder and have two...which is what many makers do.

A 1Hp VFD is very reasonable now days, running between $75 and $150.

What is probably the most important is if you only have 110/120VAc or if your shop has 220/240VAC. If you have 220 power, you can use all sorts of larger motors.
Click to expand...

Where do you find $75-$150 VFD? I can only find them in the $250 range for a KBAC-24D.
DR...
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I will give a different thought.

That first 3Ph motor with a VFD would have a total cost of barely more than a plain 1Ph motor. This would allow you to run a GIB just fine....and have VS which is a much more valuable asset on a grinder than an extra 1/2HP. 1HP will work fine for most tasks. When the time comes for a bigger motor, you can build or buy a second grinder and have two...which is what many makers do.

A 1Hp VFD is very reasonable now days, running between $75 and $150.

What is probably the most important is if you only have 110/120VAc or if your shop has 220/240VAC. If you have 220 power, you can use all sorts of larger motors.
Click to expand...

Yeah thats my only problem, I have a regular plug, not 220/240VAC. So I guess that instantly rules out 3PH motors?

Also, instead of double posting:

Are 56hc and 56c the same thing? Everything I am finding on them points to yes, they are, I just don't want to order a 56hc motor and not have it fit.
 
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sargentcrunch said:
Yeah thats my only problem, I have a regular plug, not 220/240VAC. So I guess that instantly rules out 3PH motors?

Also, instead of double posting:

Are 56hc and 56c the same thing? Everything I am finding on them points to yes, they are, I just don't want to order a 56hc motor and not have it fit.
Click to expand...


no
Read this
Especially the VFD Variable Speed made simple


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...You-Want-In-One-Place?p=12016587#post12016587



C vs HC
SEarch for NEMA motor specifications, you can find many charts and drawings



http://www.grainger.com/tps/motors_nema_motor_dimensional_chart.pdf
 
12345678910 said:
no
Read this
Especially the VFD Variable Speed made simple


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...You-Want-In-One-Place?p=12016587#post12016587



C vs HC
SEarch for NEMA motor specifications, you can find many charts and drawings



http://www.grainger.com/tps/motors_nema_motor_dimensional_chart.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks, yeah I have seen that chart, it shows the same drawing for "56C, 56HC, 56J, 143TC, and 145TC". So I guess all those motors have the same mounting dimensions then? Thats what I am getting out of every chart/drawing I have seen. I just want to double check with the people here who have way more experience then I do.

Found another page that says the H means "Used on some 56 frame motors, “H” indicates that the base is suitable for mounting in either 56, 143T, or 145T mounting dimensions."

So I guess that answers it, 56HC motors will work on the GIB
 
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TECO makes a VFD that takes 115in and gives 220 3Ph out. I used to see it selling for for between $100-150 , depending on the source. Right now it seems to be running at a bit below $160. There are Chinese copies of that that I have seen for $100.

Even at $160 plus a surplus $50 motor, that will make the grinder power package less than $250 including shipping. That is considerably less than the price of many TEFC 120V 1Ph motors.

T\Yes, these aren't NEMA-4 or KBACs, but work for an entry grinder with some dust protection.

Here is the type I am referring to;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-HP-115V-1...552?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item54052e4238
 
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