Winter nights in the bush. Discussion.

N

northern

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May 2, 2010
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I spend a lot of time in the bush through the winter. My winter gear has gotten rather modern and I was hoping to reverse that trend. I would like to start a conversation about tips And techniques for winter life in the bush. Anyone outthere using wool blankets and such? Assume for the sake of the conversation money isn't a problem and I am free to
Have open fires. Just Hoping to brainstorm. Walk me through what. You do or would do.
Furthermore let's assume it is a Canadian winter, yanno with snow and such en.
 
I would strongly recommend you acquire a copy of "The Snow Walker's Companion" by Garrett and Alexandra Connover. If you're interested in traditional winter backwoods living and gear, this is an invaluable resource. For my own part, I blend the old with the new, wool clothing and synthetic snowshoes for example.
 
Thank you! Book suggestions are very much welcome, I will be ordering that book. I looked it up and it's not carried in store near me.
 
Northern check for the book on abebooks.com. I find many hard to find and even rare books on there with ease.
 
While I have done my share of winter camping I am certainly not an expert. A couple simple things that are often overlooked:
1) Calories. Eat and drink more than you think you should. You are burning a lot of fuel staying warm and your body needs it. Also hydrate. It is very possible to dehydrate in the cold. Drink.
2) Colder is actually better IMO. As we all know staying dry is very important in the winter. I find that 15F and below is much dryer than 25F+.

I will be checking back with this thread frequently hoping to learn new stuff.
 
This is Rick Marchand's passion, using primitive winter camping methods. He typically trains up around the Espanola (Ontario) area and prefers it when temperatures are dry cold at -20oC or below. He uses his wool anaorak doubled up in conjunction with fire heat.

I will say this. It is really cool what he does, but also a lot of work. In terms of shelter prep and fire management you are expending a tonne of calories (and time) supporting your shelter/warmth needs. So on a weekend camping trip, most of that time will be spent procuring enough wood of large enough size to burn for sufficient periods of time and tweaking your shelter to get it to work. Certainly, not something you are going to be able to do in areas where LNT is the rule and expectation. You have to view this activity as part of the fun. Be prepared to step up your wood processing to 8"-10" sized logs and either hump a full size axe or big buck saw.

Having watched Rick and his cousin a couple of weekends ago, I have to say it is a heck of a lot more work that they do compared to the amount of work I did even though I was humping my appropriately rated sleep system and tarp shelter. Still it was fun and it can certainly be done in Canada's winter environment.

The unfortunate part is the degree of incompatibility between modern gear and fire. Every synthetic seems to want to burst into flames at the smallest spark so this means you really can't effectively use fire to supplement a lesser rated sleeping bag. Wool is used here because it smoulders but doesn't burn well and is a good cover to sparks. As far as warmth/weight and warmth/bulk, wool is a far cry from the benefits you get with a good down bag.

I do understand the appeal of doing it the old fashion way though. Maybe, I'm just getting a little too old to work as hard as the old timers did :D
 
I gave up discomfort years ago.

In my youth, I camped in the dead of winter, in the mountains and snow. I had a USGI pup tent, and wool blankets. Wool clothes and no Goretex.
I cooked over a fire, using a tin can, an old cast off fork and spoon as my kitchen gear. My knife was an already old Clauss fixed blade, and a Case Stockman folder.

I know I can still do all that, but I have zero interest in reliving the past.:D
 
Ken pretty much nailed it. Going traditional/primitive is A LOT of work... and barely comfortable at times. I do it because I love the challenge, not necessarily because I think it's the better way to go.

As mentioned, it is difficult to mix the two when it comes to shelter and heat. Synthetics are dangerous around an open flame/sparks. I carry less but I think it is still heavier than it's synthetic counterpart. (Ken, for reference, my entire kit less the jug of water was 26lbs).

When I go traditional in the winter, I ALWAYS carry a multifuel stove. Most times, I don't use it but having it there just makes sense, IMO. I do mix traditional with modern... I'm not really into "period treks" much.

You have to ask yourself what you want from your winter trip. If it's to challenge yourself and make due without, then traditional/minimal is something to look into. If it is to enjoy nature, relax and take it all in.... stay hi-tech and comfortable.


LOL..... I had a typo and invented a new word.... "TARDITIONAL" ......Ha!

Rick
 
Funny word? I think that there are times when "tarditional" is completely appropriate...

"The guy froze to death because he employed a completely tarditional camping stragedy."
 
One of the things that I liked in the book I mentioned earlier was the Connover's use of narrow tobbogans which they hauled behind them. This frees one from carrying a pack, and multiplies the amount of gear and food that can be carried exponentially. The book includes plans for constructing one.
 
I recall reading in Kephart, how he thought air mattress was a great thing; except they were cold to sleep on. Nessmuk carried a tarp and talked about having custom cookware made.

Shanks and mocs were considered superior to typical heavy footwear of the outdoor tradesman; yet neither was interested in carrying water in gut bags, or neolithic cutlery.

There are other examples of how each searched out the "best" of what was available. Some was new technology, other pieces were not.

Some of the new stuff in today's market is of the same silly genre that cluttered the camp boxes of our favorite authors' contemporary woods neighbors. unnecessary, ungainly junk. Some of the new stuff is damned awesome, practical, functional.

I am still trying to find my mixture as well. Winter is a special time; even though in oklahoma we don't get much of the good( the bad from some points of view) it can still feel pretty cold. For many reasons that is not especially determined by temperature.

I'm interested in what others do too; but also, and maybe even more so, why? choose gear A from the tard pile and B from preapocolyptic dino-fur era?

Last night I had a mailbox stove cooking at the rear and fire at the front with plastic sheeting door; mylar and tyvek roof. I let the box burn out because it was smokin' up the interior. And I let the fire burn out at the front just because I needed sleep. There were better sites but this one was well used and the least trashed up. It was cold and damp after the fires went out.

So if you are making a Super Shelter like structure, why can't you also have synthetic covered down bag? You can get some heat without going full burn and the sheeting and roof are going up/melting before your bag.
 
^ pulks are a popular way w/ ski's or snowshoes to carry gear- you can build them (or buy them)

I think kgd's post is spot on, there are going to be some trade-offs going "modern" vs "traditional"- time needed in camp being a biggy
 
Briarbrow said:
So if you are making a Super Shelter like structure, why can't you also have synthetic covered down bag? You can get some heat without going full burn and the sheeting and roof are going up/melting before your bag.
Click to expand...

Thanks for re-jigging that nightmare I was trying to forget. Well, you pretty much nailed my worse fear right there. I think' I'd rather wake up under those circumstances covered in wool. For the most part, I'd rather not find myself in those circumstances.

Edit - the supershelter is really neat but I like it from a distance ;)
 
in my present condition i'd make good fatwood. I guessed theSS was tried and true not a danger. I felt it safer than the stove trying to CO me

Today I went over the leaks with stove putty. not camping tonight so it's hard to tell if the mailbox is leaking smoke or not.

one reason i made this was to get a feel for what a small stove can do. I have spent a little too much time at Kifaru website checking out their paratarp, annex and parastove.

I like their guarantee, and that the stove breaks down flat. 2lb 5oz for the smallest
 
It gets darn cold here so if I'm going in the bush it's pure survival mode for me. My primitive/traditional trips I save for milder weather. Even with all hi-tech gear a winter trip can still be uncomfortable for unforseeable reasons or weather. The gear gives me an advantage. I've done cold weather trips when I was a lot younger with minimal gear ( or too simple , like blankets instead of sleeping bag, no ground pad, etc.) and suffered for it. Using underadequate gear in the woods at least here , will lead to suffereing and discomfort and that's not why I go in the bush. The gear available now has a lot of advantages to it and using more traditional old-tyme stuff has let me down more than I care to remember. Tents that are a hassle to set up , cold blankets or sleeping bags , sweaty jackets , etc. I'll stick with modern gear in the winter. Summer is another thing altogether. Without the fear of hypothermia present , i can travel a lot simpler and lighter , and occasionally like to do trips with basic essentials. Cold weather makes all the difference.
:)
 
It really depends on the situation and the area. If I have natural resources available, and we are making a base camp, I will either go with a tarp tipi or a natural shelter. If we are breaking camp every day and covering some distance. Then a winter bag, bivy and tarp set up would be better.

If you are using traditional gear and suffering then you need to practice with traditional gear more. There are ways to make a wool blanket work in -25 degrees. Like Ken said, you can't just interchange traditional and hi-tech gear and think it's going to work. Each style has a different approach and skill set.
 
Rick Marchand said:
It really depends on the situation and the area. If I have natural resources available, and we are making a base camp, I will either go with a tarp tipi or a natural shelter. If we are breaking camp every day and covering some distance. Then a winter bag, bivy and tarp set up would be better.

If you are using traditional gear and suffering then you need to practice with traditional gear more. There are ways to make a wool blanket work in -25 degrees. Like Ken said, you can't just interchange traditional and hi-tech gear and think it's going to work. Each style has a different approach and skill set.
Click to expand...

Hi Rick, you've many friends and much respect here. I dig that leather backpack and bush belt. A little disappointed to hear it aint working in the cold.
Nevertheless I gotta ask- where's the mukluks. You mentioned primitive/traditional- so what the hell kinda boots were you wearing on the trip with KGD:eek:

I made my own shoes for a couple years. I was happy and then sad, never really got it right. I mean everywhere, everyday. Holes in the soles, soggy. Too tight, too loose, redo, repair.

Points out one of the reasons modern gear is so handy. Taking care of your feet is a primary concern. It takes a lot of knowledge, skill, specialized materials. A lot more than ponchos and anoraks. (I'm just sayin' ;))

I asked earlier about the why's of one's choices. "bushcraft" is still new to me. Bush is not even an american word, which I only say as an american myself. woodscraft, woodslore.

...depends on the situation, yes: I see. Is that it? At some point it becomes "historical trekking" I guess what I am getting at is; it's kinda hard to develop, to find: "whatever works for you" and it be perfect. It's always more like: "grab what ya got. Good Luck"
Does that make sense?
 
Briarbrow said:
Hi Rick, you've many friends and much respect here. I dig that leather backpack and bush belt. A little disappointed to hear it aint working in the cold.
Nevertheless I gotta ask- where's the mukluks. You mentioned primitive/traditional- so what the hell kinda boots were you wearing on the trip with KGD:eek:
Click to expand...

Hey bud... great points and good questions. What makes you think the bushpack and belt aren't working? I don't use the bushpack anymore because my mentor stole it from me.... lol. I have made 5 to date and still don't have one of my own.:grumpy: I always wear the bushbelt and was wearing it on the weekend with Ken. Those boots I wore were Sorel Intrepid Explorers.... great winter boot. I like a mix of primitive, traditional and hi-tech when in the woods. I had said before, that I'm not much of a "period correct" trekker and would never claim to be. I simply use what works and what makes me feel good. You said...
Briarbrow said:
Points out one of the reasons modern gear is so handy. Taking care of your feet is a primary concern. It takes a lot of knowledge, skill, specialized materials. A lot more than ponchos and anoraks. (I'm just sayin' ;))
Click to expand...
On this point, I couldn't agree more. Footwear was the single biggest factor for the historical trekker. I have been messing around with Mark Baker style shoe-packs and have doubts that I will get them working like he does. I tried and failed thus far so have stayed with the hi-tech alternative. There are folks who can pull off traditional mukluks/shoe-packs in cold wet conditions and I envy where they are at, not the trials they went through getting there. Now, if we are talking survival and emergency footwear. I have hiked around in wool socks stuffed with dried marsh grass... warm and effective but hardly tolerable.

Briarbrow said:
I asked earlier about the why's of one's choices. "bushcraft" is still new to me. Bush is not even an american word, which I only say as an american myself. woodscraft, woodslore.

...depends on the situation, yes: I see. Is that it? At some point it becomes "historical trekking" I guess what I am getting at is; it's kinda hard to develop, to find: "whatever works for you" and it be perfect. It's always more like: "grab what ya got. Good Luck"
Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

I hope I am following this correctly... If you are making the point that gear choices are forever evolving... then yes... I agree. I think you are also trying to find out what makes one guy choose to sleep in a 4 season tent with wool blankets while another uses a synthetic covered down bag under a thatched lean-to. Or, in my case, a super shelter, bedroll, ALICE pack, bushbelt, wool anorak, hi-tech boot combo? Sounds like a mish-mosh of contradicting styles right? Well it is... and truthfully, I don't give much thought to being true to ONE style. Some of my "tarditional" gear just gives me a good feeling when I use it and some of my modern equipment just makes sense from a safety point of view. I try not to get hung up on traditional vs. hi-tech.... If folks are painting a picture of me in 18th century dress, living entirely off the land, they are mistaken... I just do what I like doing.

The super shelter weekend was an experiement my cousin and I were itching to try out. That was the first time we hed ever attempted building one. I had a blast.
 
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