Winter survival and hotel living

S

stand watie

Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
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Well I was curious if anyone could offer me some advice on winter survival. I'm heading up to upstate New York from Texas and it appears I will be spending the next year or so on the east coast for work. Now south Texas isn't exactly known for snowy winters and so I am a little concerned.

Now digging through old threads has kind of given me a pretty decent idea of what survival items I need in my truck. I've already got a Doug Ritter Pocket Survival Pak in the glove box. I also have a large heavy duty tarp, a hachet, a set of tools, a blanket, a very skimpy first aid kit, , a flashlight, road flares, and a pocket knife. I keep bottled water too, but I have already figured out I am going to have to store that a little differently. I was going to add some winter clothes and boots, a shovel, some powerbars, extra windsheild washer fluid, a small backpacking stove?, and something for traction i.e. sand, cardboard box, ect. If you guys see anything you think I'm missing please chime in.

Now my other issue is that due to the nature of my job I will most likely be staying in hotels. Now here is where things get a little trickier. Worst case a storm knocks out power and I'm left sitting in a hotelroom wondering WTF to do. I figure enough food and water to last me and my dog for 72hrs, candles, flashlight, camping stove, and a sleeping bag. After that I am kind of left scratching my head. I mean it is a hotelroom and so I don't really want to store a whole lot of extra stuff in there, but anyway any suggestions would be very much appreciated. Thanks gents, Jeremy
 
Having grown up in upstate NY I will say that a couple of items are a must. Get a good pair of pack boots,. Sorrel are my favorites, a good pair of warm waterproof gloves and always have them on you.

Get a set of tire chains for your truck and a good windshield ice scraper.
 
If you're planning on getting holed up in a motel/hotel, bring a battery powered reading lantern, some books, a radio, maybe even a TV. Power outages can be random, any time of the year for a variety of reasons. Most hotels will probably have a back-up generator.

Keep an eye on the weather channel as you drive north. The western part of New York, from Buffalo to Watertown, gets the heaviest "lake effect" snow from moisture blowing off Lake Ontario. It dumps out in the Adirondack Mountains and is usually lighter by the time it gets to the eastern side of the state.

Every county and township up here has a very efficient snow removal system. A power outage may last for days or a week or more, but the roads will be cleared before that.

If you find yourself driving into a snowstorm, get off the highway ASAP, find the nearest motel, and wait it out. I don't care if you have chains or FWD, you can still get stuck and be a hindrance to the snow plows. I don't go anywhere until the snowplows have cleared the road.

Put a good sturdy snowshovel, or any kind of shovel you like, in your truck. You can use kitty litter instead of sand. Winter clothing and good snow boots, and gloves, and a warm hat, are a must.

Keep an eye on the weather, even the cheapest motels have cable and the weather channel.
 
I'd say you're off to a very good start, but there's room for improvement...
(For the record, I spent the first quarter-century of my life in MN, and the past 15 years in CO. I spend a lot of time outdoors.)

THE GOLDEN RULES OF WINTER DRIVING: DO NOT GO BELOW 1/2 A TANK OF GAS. EVER. PAY ATTENTION TO WEATHER FORECASTS. ALWAYS.

First: Doug Ritter named it called a "pocket" survival kit for a reason. Take it out of the glove box and get it into action.

Second: Google "Minnesota" and "winter survival kit".
(Every fall the local newspapers put together a list of stuff to keep in your vehicle. Let your judgment be your guide.)

Third: Get a pocket sized aerosol can of "LOCK DE-ICER" at an auto parts store and keep it in your warm coat. Don't rely on heating up your key with a lighter. It'll only work in ideal conditions.
(If it's cold enough for you to need your warm coat, it's cold enough to freeze your locks. ASAP, inject all of your locks with dry graphite lubricant (again from an auto parts store) to keep them moving freely in case some moisture gets in there.) Run a rag lightly dampened with silicone lube or WD40 around your door seals and jambs. A little goes a long way, not to mention this stuff stinks and stains many fabrics.

Fourth: Being from Texas, don't assume you know how to drive on snow. Practice in vacant parking lots, etc. during the small storms so you won't have to learn using trial and error during "the Big One" (of which, there are likely to be several).

Fifth: As soon as you hit the North Country, get your truck serviced for winter, (anti-freeze, belts, hoses, tires, BATTERY--look for maximum CCA's or Cold Cranking Amps, etc). Don't trust this job to some Texas mechanic who thinks 50 degrees F = winter. Have some crusty, old turd in Buffalo, NY do it. Consider installing an engine block heater (ideally, frost plug type) and a battery heater. (Don't forget to bring a heavy-duty extension cord that won't freeze itself rigid in the extreme cold.)

Sixth: You didn't mention if your truck is a 4 x 4 or not, but either way you need good tires. The following website is excellent for tire reviews, (1010tires.com). I run a Bridgestone Deuler A/T Revo tire on my truck with an option of V-bar chains when things extra interesting. If I get stuck with those, which I could, please retrieve my thawing corpse in the spring.

Here's a list of some other stuff I'd advise you acquire as you needs dictate and budget allows. Familiarize yourself with things ahead of time. (This is in no particular order.)
-Roadside Assistance Policy on your insurance or AAA
-Sturdy ice scraper of adequate length
-Cell phone with antennae booster (ccrane.com)
-HEET: Fuel line dryer
-12v Power Pack w/ onboard compressor for self jump-starting (along those lines, call 800/877-7878 and get a free "HOW TO" jump start sticker and paste it under your hood or next to where you store your jumper cables. Trust me on this one, okay?)
-Aforementioned jumper cables: long and low gauge (thick)
-Bucket/Grain shovel (aluminum/steel)
-Pee jug: my current favorite is the 1/2 gallon, wide-mouthed Pace Picante jugs from Sam's/Costco
-Magnetic flash beacon that runs off a cig lighter
-Tire Repair Kit: plugs, spare in a can, extra valve core, specialty tools, etc.
-Aerosol Starting Fluid
-RECOVERY GEAR: Metal Grate or similar for traction (keep the sand, lose the cardboard); Hi Lift Jack; Attachments needed to use this jack on your truck; Big Foot base for Hi Lift jack; Slab of plywood for under Big Foot; Recovery Chain; Assorted sizes of clevis; Winch Attachment for Hi Lift Jack that utilizes Recovery Chain; Recovery straps for anchors while winching, etc.
-Wheel chocks: a couple of split logs double nicely as seasoned kindling
-Take Offs: save the best of your old belts, hoses, distributor cap, etc.
-Sub-Zero Windshield Wiper Fluid
-Insulated Carharts or snowmobile suit (it's like a sleeping bag you can wear)
-Major league winter boots: Sorrels, etc
-Two pair of winter weight wool sox
-Heavy duty mittens and balaclava/ski mask
-Stuff to keep you dog comfortable and alive

Final Thoughts: I've had two close calls with driving mishaps in winter conditions.

The first was in high school. A group of us got a flat tire while driving home from a toga party. My attire: toga, sweat pants, Sorrel boots, parka, mitts, hat. (Temperature: a toasty 28 degrees below zero F / Wind chill: a not so toasty 92 degrees F below zero...good times!) This simple task took over three hours to complete as my drunken, toga wearing buddies cheered me on from the heated interior of the La Sabre wagon. I had to warm up for a minimum of 15 minutes between loosening each lug nut. It was brutally, brutally cold. Beyond imagination.

In the other narrow escape, I high-centered my truck on a glacier above tree-line. This occurred about 25 miles off pavement into the wilderness. I was alone. This was many years ago, and marks the dawning of my current atitude towards preparedness. I was not prepared for the task ahead of me. It took 14 hours of non-stop digging and winching in 20 degree F and high winds to extricate myself. Again, not a pleasant experience.

Look for opportunities to help others. We are talking about potentially lethal weather, and besides there's always snuggling opportunities. :thumbup: :D :thumbup:

As far as hotel living is concerned...Get to know the staff and the building layout; Identify nearby resources (vending machines, etc.) and have a plan to acquire their contents; Identify potential threats; Test yourself-run a scenario once a week; Park in a high traffic, well lit area visible from your room; And fill the tub with water when it's not in use.

Remember to ALWAYS KEEP MAKING DECISIONS! You will make mistakes. It's a given, but you must keep the survival process is motion.

If you get stuck, be sure to keep your tailipe clear of snow and try not to run your engine more than 15 minute an hour. Less is better if you can manage it. Keep a couple of window on opposing sides, ever so slighly cracked for ventaliation. Know the signs and symptoms of CO poisoning.

Don't drive on frozen lakes until the locals have been doing it and it's been at least two weeks of freezing weather since anyone's gone through. Stick to the 'roads' and be mindful of warm springs, heave buckles, etc. Where I come from, they move houses across lakes pulled by tractor trailer rig, I'm guessing it's the same in the finger lakes region of NY.

By now, I'm sure many of you reading this see me as a big :jerkit: . That's cool. My approach is based on experience, and no two people walk the same path. My final word of caution is as follows: All great tragedies begin with a series of seemingly inconsequential events.
 
martoonisotu said:
I'd say you're off to a very good start, but there's room for improvement...

By now, I'm sure many of you reading this see me as a big :jerkit: . That's cool. My approach is based on experience, and no two people walk the same path. My final word of caution is as follows: All great tragedies begin with a series of seemingly inconsequential events.
Click to expand...

You may be a little absolute in your opinions . That is not the issue here .
Good advice from start to finish . It is also true that the opinions expressed were based on experience and not just out of a book . I,ve been through upstate New York hundreds of times . Fine people . Rough weather? Really it can get rougher here . It is the type of landscape that you can drive through that makes the weather more of a hazard . Lots of back country roads . Picturesque and relaxing in summer . Dangerous and icy as a revenooers smile in winter .

I have had my share of car troubles down there . If not for good friends and places to stay I would have had to use quite a few of the things mentioned in that excellent post . :thumbup:
 
All good thoughts.
The thing about western New York, as mentioned are the Lake Effect Snows.
They happen more in the beggining of the season before the lakes freeze over.
Northern Air blows over the lakes, picks up huge amounts of moisture, and dumps it! From Cleveland all the way around Erie and Ontario to Clayton, New York.
They can come quickly, and dump FEET of snow in short order.

Ok so those are the winter storms, they are going to happen and hopefully you can dodge most of them and be someplace warm and safe.

Now there is the day to day.
Real good advice about vehicle prep. Your battery from Texas has a high likleyhood of dieing, fast as soon as it sees really cold weather. I would have it changed for something new, right away. 1000+ CCAs. pay the extra $20, and biggie size, it's well worth it.

Consider installing an engine block heater (ideally, frost plug type) and a battery heater. (Don't forget to bring a heavy-duty extension cord that won't freeze itself rigid in the extreme cold.)

Engine block heaters are great!! Awesome! Forget emergencies.
Even if your vehicle is in a garage, the garage will go below freezing at night.
The block heater heats your coolant to about 100°. That's warm enough to get warm air out of your heater and defroster to warm the passenger compartment.
It burns as much juice as 60w to 100w light bulb, depending on the on the model you buy.
I was concious of power consumption, so I put mine on a simple timer, it would come on at 4am, and by 6am the block was plenty warm.

The block heater will extend the life of your battery tremendously, and give you flawless easy starting. Since the block is warm, you get immediate lubrication. Oil can pratically solidify in some of those cold temps.

As you can tell, I love block heaters, after market ones install on your lower radiator hose. All mechanics in Upstate NewYork will know what they are and be able to install them.

I give block heaters high marks, great value for the dollar, they are not expensive.
 
Not a :jerkit: at all! :) I've lived in the Cool Blue North for 35 years and you've reminded me of some things I'm short on.
 
Har har. Actually, I'm well stocked on personality and good looks, they often get me through some most disastrous situations ;)
 
When in snow country (besides the things listed above) I have found the following to be of use;
  • a case (or more of MREs) Freeze dried are not as handy as you will have to reconstitute them.
  • Snow tires (I use agressive mud tires)
  • tire chains
  • a tow strap (get at least a 20,000 lb rated one without hooks, get some heavy duty shackles to attach it to the vehicles)
  • Tow points on your vehicles (bumpers pull off too easily)
  • a source of heat for the cab (a few of those week long candles are good along with matches and a BIC lighter to light the candle)
  • A GI canteen and cup (use the cup to melt water over the candle)
  • when running the engine remove the snow from around the exhaust piipe first.
I'm sure theies more but these just came to mind.
I carry a small, cheap, LED light (AAA cel) at all times it would serve in the vehicle or in the motel to find your way around.
Enjoy!
 
I haven't seen anyone mention snow tires. Someone once told me that all-season radials are as good as snow tires. I believed this for a few years until I got fed up with spinning my wheels on roads that other people seemed to have no trouble on. The snow tires made it seem like I had a whole new car. Get some decent snow tires.

Also, I'm biased against rear-wheel drive vehicles. They don't seem to handle well in snowy/icy conditions. I don't know if a different vehicle is realistic for you at this point, but if your truck is rear-wheel drive only, you might think about something different for the winter. At a minimum, toss some sandbags in the back of your truck for extra traction.
 
Joel Stave said:
I haven't seen anyone mention snow tires. Someone once told me that all-season radials are as good as snow tires. I believed this for a few years until I got fed up with spinning my wheels on roads that other people seemed to have no trouble on. The snow tires made it seem like I had a whole new car. Get some decent snow tires.

Also, I'm biased against rear-wheel drive vehicles. They don't seem to handle well in snowy/icy conditions. I don't know if a different vehicle is realistic for you at this point, but if your truck is rear-wheel drive only, you might think about something different for the winter. At a minimum, toss some sandbags in the back of your truck for extra traction.
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Rear wheel drive only trucks are the worst of the worst. Not only do they lack traction, the rear will kick out without a moments notice. Definately need good tires. I remember saying to a friend of mine, well, we used to only drive rear wheel drives all winter and he said "yeah, and we spend half the winter pulling each other out of ditches!"

Also, get good wipers.

A note on sandbags. Not a big deal at low speeds, but in an accident at higher speeds, they can become ballistic missiles. You should try to secure them somehow. The only truly safe "weight" I've seen in the back is a guy who took a big sheet of plate metal and bolted it right to the bed of his truck. He'd unbolt it and take it off in the summer. Not really easy like sandbags, but if you can do it it would work. You can also still use the bed of the truck.
 
First off you guys have already helped me out more than you know. I took one look at this thread this morning and I told myself I have a lot of stuff to buy! So when I called in about my transfer this morning I told them that they were going to have to raise my day rate b/c I was going to have a lot of expenses for this move. So on top of all the good info I have to thank you guys for I also have to say thanks for the RAISE! So thanks gents.

So my truck is a F-250 diesel with four wheel drive. So I already have the engine block heater covered. I'm going to assume that it is common in these areas for everyone to be using one even at a hotel? As far as tires go I luckly just bought four news ones right before I learned of my move, DOH!!! I'll have to go back and check out that website martoonisotu posted, and see how people feel they run in snow.

Finally I just wanted to say thanks again guys. I appreciate all the info and effort to clue in the clueless Texan. I was actually thinking about the last time I saw snow was when I was living in AZ, and I was in a t-shirt and shorts. haha I guess those days are over.
 
Some all season tires are good in winter if you don,t run them much in summer .
Sounds like a carch 22 .

If I can I get my all seasons when the first snow hits the ground . That way they have a little pavement to wear the tits off before winter really hits . You also have lots of well designed tread instead of running on so-so tires with fifteen thousand miles on them .

Winter tires are best . Unless you get premium grades you pay a lot more in gas mileage . Spend as much as you can . You will save in gas dollars and get a better safer tire . Michelins and B:F: goodrich(sp)

Even if your bargain basement tires are safe you could be spending 4 or 5 dollars a week more on gas . Add that up over a winter . Spend it on tires .
 
I live in hotels all year long. If you are going to be in one for any length of time, bring in a few 2 1/2 gallons jugs of water and put them in the corner. 1 a day if you don't feel like lugging them up all at once. Also, if possible, get a room on the first floor, so you can run your extention cord to your vehicle.( for the block heater. Bring a strip of foam to trap in the room window so you don't lose heat.
Keep a plastic box on the nightstand with a whistle, a flashlight, alarm clock, an envelope with ID and extra money, a SAK, Paracord, and a mini eyewash bottle, and a roll of hard candy. Keys are also kept there while sleeping.
A bug out bag is outside my suitcase if I have to really get out quickly. It contains cook gear, shelter, knife, first aid kit, and emergency rations, also rain gear,a whistle and a liter of water.

I use a medium sized trunk to fit everything in, including my everyday clothes, work clothes, computer, etc. everything I own can be taken in one trip, although I might have to leave the extra water.
I have three to four days of food, mostly in packets, set aside, although I rotate them fairly often. I cook with a trangia alcohol stove, I do have an electric kettle though. A few of the guys I work with prefer the propane stoves.
In warmer weather, higher floors might give you more privacy, but try to stay below the seventh floor, Fire truck ladders and hose spray only reach so high.
Candles or a hurricane lamp can be nice to have as well.
Bring a few books, or a chessboard.
In Nine years of living out of hotels, I had to leave the buildings a few times, mostly for fires.
 
Revisiting the subject of tires, the model I use (Bridgestone Dueler AT Revo in a LT, not a P configuration) is an all terrain (AT) mud and snow tire (M + S). Since Stand Watie is facing the challenge of logging mucho miles on the road and facing potentially poor weather, these strike a good balance in my opinion. I've had good luck with them, and like I said, I also have the V-bar tire chains in the bull pen in case things get real bad.

Another model to consider is the BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A KO, a proven performer and a crowd favorite that slightly exceeds my Bridgestones in sloppy mud. It is however, not as sticky on wet pavement IMHO. Compromise, compromise. Some guys in the UP in Michigan swear by the Michelin LTX A/T in snow, but concede they aren't as well suited for remote exploring off-road. What's a guy to do?

I've never been to upstate NY, so I guess I'm imagining something like Lake Placid. Obviously, the map is not the territory.

If you're looking to get serious about outfitting your vehicle, this is an excellent website for reference, (http://www.expeditionportal.com/). Enjoy, and don't blame me if you're calling in sick for the next couple of days. :D

Some things have changed, but here's an old list from a previous post of some of the stuff I carry:

Here's my approach. My travel frequently takes me from a major metropolitan area to remote wilderness settings. I drive an old 4x4 truck that looks like a decommissioned phone company vehicle. On the outside, there's nothing that would ever give you pause to look twice. [That's not as true as it once was, but lots of guys have custom roof racks/bumpers out here, so it doesn't stand out too much.]

But inside...
-Enough camo netting to cover the entire rig
-Signaling gear: orange duck tape for arrows, SOS, etc. (it's a white truck and Colorado has lots of snow)
-Full size spares (2)
-An assortment of tire patching tools and materials
-Old parts that may still save my ass in a pinch: u-joints, lug nut, belts, hoses, spark plugs and wires, cap and rotor. etc.
-Other auto stuff that might come in handy: fluids (ATF, HEET, oil, coolant, brake, etc.) filters (oil, air, and fuel), etc.
-Onboard compressor / jumpstarting unit (Solar battery charger and bicycle pump for when the main unit craps out...I can do a lot of things, but I can't create electricity or compress air on my own.)
-Self Extrication Tools: V-Bar tire chains, HiLift Jack, winch (2), 30' logging chains, assorted recovery/tow straps, clevis (3)
-Tools: axe, 24" & 72" pry bars, 16# sledge, shovels, pick axe, big bow saw, machete, and basic auto repair
-Folding Bicycle: 24" x 18" x 12", currently being converted to hard use scenarios, (solid tires, gun mount, etc.)
-Inflatable Stearns Canoe, collapsible paddles, PFD, whitewater helmet, rescue rope
-Vertical gear: harness, rope, anchors, grappling hook
-5 gallon jerry fuel cans (4)
-Assorted siphons for assorted fluids (none of which require me to use my mouth for suction, chemical pneumonia = bad! )
-Dual fuel (white gas/unleaded gas) Colman two burner stove & two mantle lantern
-Military officers mess kit for 8 (yeah, like I'm gonna wash dishes, c'mon)
-20,000 kcal of food (roughly 10 days)
-7 Gallon water jugs (3)
-110v Inverter
-EMT First Aid Kit (FAK)
-Collapsible litter
-The mighty toilet paper
-An arsenal that rivals the National Guard
-Enough clothing to keep two other adults warm and dry
(I live in the Rockies and seem to have made friends with many people who have no concept of climate as it relates to altitude. Oh well, I guess I can always eat them. )
-An assortment of well-worn footwear decommissioned with 3 months of life remaining
-Sox, sox, and sox!
-And a BOB that is constantly tested and improved upon

I realize much of this may not be practical for everyone, (especially with all this extra weight and fuel at $3.00/gal & climbing), but maybe it will get you thinking about something that works on your end. Is this overkill? Absolutely. Has it save my ass? You betcha. It has also allowed me to capitalize on some awesome spontaneous adventures and provide several much-appreciated rescues/assists.

I've also done the same exercise/stockpiling for my dual sport motorcycle and mountain bike.
 
stand watie said:
So my truck is a F-250 diesel with four wheel drive. So I already have the engine block heater covered. I'm going to assume that it is common in these areas for everyone to be using one even at a hotel? As far as tires go I luckly just bought four news ones right before I learned of my move, DOH!!! I'll have to go back and check out that website martoonisotu posted, and see how people feel they run in snow.
Click to expand...

Excellent truck.

Yes, in the north country, the hotels have electrical plugs in front of many of the parking spots. So you can indeed plug in. People in the north understand living with the cold.

Do a google search on chafing fuel. Not that I dislike candles, but this might be safer, and have more than one use.
 
For those with a two wheel drive vehicle, a locking rear differential can be quite helpful in snow. I run Cooper Discoverer M+S tires all around on my two wheel drive truck. Snows are a good idea on the front tires too, even on a two wheel drive vehicle, that's where most of your stopping power is. In my experience, being able to stop in slippery conditions is more of an issue than being able to get the vehicle moving. Nokian makes excellent snow tires as well.
 
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