WIP – Help me build a fighter

Patrice Lemée

Patrice Lemée

Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
5,703
Jason and Nick collaborating with Joe to produce awesome fighters really made me want to try one myself. I thought that I would make a WIP of it since I haven't made one in a while and really enjoy sharing my time in the shop (in a way) with you guys.

Since I pretty much have no idea what I am doing design wise, except some pointers Joe already gave me (thanks again) in another thread, I thought I'd start with the design process and include it in the WIP. The down side is that I won't post actual shop pics for a few weeks until I have the design fine tuned.

So let's get started. Hope you enjoy!

What I am thinking to start (gotta work with materials I have on hand :o):

5160 .250 thick, full tang knife
Screwd-on handle scales, kind of pale jade green G10 with bronze accents and guard/bolsters.

Got a few ideas bouncing around my head but I need to established basic blade shape first. So to that intent, 2 questions:

1) Is one belly shape better than another? I've seen anything from curvy recurve to a deep belly being called a fighter.

2) Same with the sharpen clip. You get straight flat clips all the way to a dramatic harpoon points and everything in between. Any big advantage that would make me choose one over the other?

I think that with this I should be able to come up with a basic working design for you guys to critique.

I appreciate any input. Please bare with me since the shop time I get can be irregular but I'll try to make this interesting for you guys to follow along.

Thanks
 
Mr. Lemee, I personally prefer a deep belly on a fighting bowie with maybe a slight recurve if any. I have never handled a recurved bowie before, but I am a fan of the straight clip similar to that of a CS Trailmaster or one of the Bagwell Bowies. Seems to me that the straight clip would penetrate better while the slightly concave clip would back-cut better, but I would check this theory with someone who is a real expert to be sure... Just took an interest in these knives a few years ago and have a lot to learn. Feel free to contact me, I would love to help with a design. I'm sure Joe or Mr. Wheeler will be along presently to enlighten us:)
 
Patrice, you could keep the option for a hidden tang open of you do a mortised handle, or frame handle. I really think Bowies work better with a hidden tang.
 
I like a little belly rather than a recurve, and I dislike deep clip points. A straight edge, with a little down slope from the handle centerline is nice.

My personal thing for a bowie is that it's handle should be functional in edge up or out positions. (Says the guy who's Ruana has finger grooves and doesn't feel right edge up) :D
 
Willie, I love hidden tangs so I will keep it on mind but I really wanted to try a full tank on this one. We'll see.

Ron, edge up or down added to my list of things to include.

Thanks guys.
 
My advice, is keep it clean and simple. No holes, or fullers or anything on the blade. I find the longer the clip, the less belly it should have and vice versa. Longer clips look better with longer straighter blades.
Just my .02.
 
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I personally really like a nice recurve. Rather than try to explain with words I would point out today's recurve by Mr. McGhee as well as the Paranee/Knight fighter as great examples of well made fighters.
 
gga357 said:
I personally really like a nice recurve. Rather than try to explain with words I would point out today's recurve by Mr. McGhee as well as the Paranee/Knight fighter as great examples of well made fighters.
Click to expand...

Thanks, those are exactly the ones I had in mind when I talked about recurves. I still need to learn more about the advantages of one vs. the other but since it looks like it can go both ways, I might pick one mostly for how it looks.
 
In my opinion, from a user standpoint (not an authority on this by any means), if you're going for something "stabby", the long clip, less belly and pointy style works best. It will be comfortable and functional in thrusting and flicking. A deeper belly, with or without the recurve, would lend itself to slashing more, I would think. Finding the versatile, happy medium between both will be the challenge. Not much curve along the spine and a neutral handle design will make it easier to change grip.

Gonna be fun to watch this develop.
 
It should look exactly like this.
12344417545_6197bab22d_n.jpg


You're welcome. :p;)

P.S. Don't listen to Ben... he cray-see!
 
Thanks stalbot, I'll try and find a middle ground or at least not go to the extreme either way. From what you are saying, I guess size also dictates the shape cause if you are gonna be using it as more of a slasher than a sticker then you'll need a larger knife, right?

Erin, it will probably look somewhat similar, minus the holes of course. ;)

Ok first pic. This is the materials I was thinking of using.



The bronze bushing is to compare color wise to the brass. I will definitely go with bronze.
The jade G10 was sent to me by somebody but sadly I can't remember who. I think it might be Matthew Gregory but I am not sure. Darn old age. :( (NOTE: if the person who sent it remembers, please let me know so I can thank you again. :o)
The brownish composite material is something I was thiking of using for accents but not sure yet how or if at all.
The torx screws are smallish 2-56, and at first I thought I needed to order larger ones. But now I have an idea that might work with this size, we'll see.

Thanks again for your help and support.
 
I have heard some persuasive arguments from people who are both knifemakers and engineers and materials experts that a large hidden-tang with a tight peen against a pommel cap of metal, or a screw-on pommel and threaded tang (which puts the tang in tension and the wood in compression while not have the same stresses that tend to pop scales off of the side) is the sturdiest of possible designs. They summed it up with something like most swords are made this same way for good reason.

Anyway, full-tang knives are nice, fun to make, sturdy, etc. But, I would really give the hidden tang (with the specifics I mentioned above) serious consideration for this application.

either way, it will be fun to watch.

kc
 
I agree with BenR.T that long for length clips tend to look best with relatively straight main edges. Short clips and harpoon clips tend to look best with main edges that have belly or recurve, or both. I have noticed that you can make a long for blade length clip look good by using extra drop on the choil then making a gentle continuous curve the whole length of main edge. By that I mean something like a 1" wide ricasso with the clip dropping about a 1/2" to the centerline of thrust, then have the blade drop 3/8" to 1/2" at the choil, and use the extra width to make the continuous gentle convex curve to the point. I have seen a couple of Nick Wheelers gents bowies done this way. This also looks good, at least to my eye.
 
Thanks for the mention folks, that's really flattering. :)


Pat- my fighting Bowies have evolved a lot over the last few years, heavily based on influences of this crazy character, Joey Paranee :D and reading Bill Bagwell's book.

To be brutally honest, I didn't pay a lot of attention to Bill's book when I first got it as a gift from my Mom. Mostly because, while I thought Bill's knives were cool and had a mean look to them, I wasn't really drawn to the aesthetics of them. :foot: :o

One small part of a phone conversation with Joe got me to rethink that and a whole lot of other things with fighters/bowies... Joe and I were talking about weight/balance/impact, etc. Joe told me that because of how Bagwell's knives are made, you can create an impact that's like a lead pipe. He said, "A lot of these guys want to talk about how light their fighter is...well, a steel ruler is light... how much damage do you think a guy's going to inflict with that?!?!?"

That really, REALLY stuck with me. It also got me to sit down and read Bill's book with much more interest and gave me a whole new appreciation for his knives.

If a knife is very thick at the guard, but then has good solid tapers, and a handle made right... it won't feel heavy, but it will have that "lead pipe" impact.

Bill talks in his book about why he feels a Bowie makes for the ultimate battle blade, and his reasoning totally makes sense IMHO.

If you have a sweeping belly it offers a great slashing ability, if you have a sharpened clip you can back-cut with the knife, and if you shape the tip right- you have a blade that can penetrate like a dagger, but is much more useful for general tasks.

I like curvy, contoured handles, but you have to be careful with the shaping. It's easy to make a handle that feels good in a normal grip, but is almost impossible to hold onto in a reverse grip.


I would also strongly recommend you go with a hidden tang. IMHO, it will be way more likely to nail the handle shape and handle drop with a hidden tang. Of course it CAN be done with a full tang--- Jason and Joe's last project is a perfect example!!! But if you look at the profile of that kick-ass knife, you'll see you'd have to start off with a really wide bar of steel to do it with stock removal.

Please don't think I feel like I've got it all figured out! Cuz I sure don't!!! :foot:



I'll have the forge burning in the shop soon, you could probably twist my arm and get me to bang out a rough blank that would give you a starting platform but be generic enough you could make it your own style with shaping & grinding..... if you're interested. :)
 
Last night I pulled out a few of my fighters and not only is the taper/balance an important item to consider, but so is the 'natural grip to point relationship'. Whether a knife, or a gun for that matter, points to the right place with respect to your grip is important to me.

Take a few knives and get comfortable with the grip. Close your eyes bring it up in the grip you would use to trust and when you open your eyes is the point where you expect it to be? Both Nick's and Jason's came in right where I like them to be. (the same exercise work with gun sights too, unloaded gun & safe back stop). Not to say you can't have a design that has a different point, you will just have to train specifically for it.
 
The term "Fighter" in common use today, doesn't seem to coincide with the common use of the "Bowie" knife designation.

Has there been a Bladeforums discussion about that yet?
 
Well in that case it looks like I will have to go with a hidden tang. I wanted to use torx screws for the handle but I don't see how I could with a taper that is severe enough to do it's the job of lightening the handle. I mean toward the butt where the tang is too thin for the screws to grab into (or even with connecting sleeves).

I am leaning more and more towards a belly instead recurved.

As far as the handle shape, thanks for reminding me of the need to be comfortable in reverse grip too. That will be a hard one cause I like you Nick I like a lot of shaping. :o I imagine that a more neutral handle will also help with knife pointing in the right place.

And Nick, I can't see what you have yet to figure out. I'd settle for half of what you have figured out up to this point. ;) I appreciate the blank offer. Let me see where I go shape wise and I'll PM you about purchasing one from you.

You guys sure are a lot of help, I can't thank you enough. :thumbup:
 
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