WIP: And Now For Something Completely Different (Damascus Shuriken)

E

Ed Braun

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Jan 14, 2012
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I hope this is ok, I know they're technically not knives, and from what I've seen a fair portion of this community is iffy about projectiles, so I apologize preemptively if this offends.

I've two vanilla EDC knives on the bench, and I miss forging--The guys who are strictly stock removal get my respect as I've got to admit, without hammering, I find myself just plain uninspired to do anything really creative. No offense, but it just doesn't have the right "feel" for me or give me that moment of clarity where I make a radical design shift. At the same time, without work, I've no means of saving for a real anvil.
And with most of my metal stock dedicated towards forging...I've a bit of a problem.

Last week a guy offered me one of his spare anvils in exchange for teaching he and his son to make Damascus and I broke out a box of spare odds and ends to give him an example of what they'd learn to forge. Picking around yesterday morning and putting things up, I found a dozen 2"x2"x1/8" squares of 1095/5160 sitting at the bottom of the bin.
I also just finished assembling my 2x72" grinder--one of Jamie's GIBs and I love it. So, I figured as a way to practice with it and do a large non-commissioned batch, I'd make some shuriken.
I'm probably going to HT at 1/8" and then grind the bevels slowly to about 1/16"--no need to have them sharpened, historically they're just pinwheel darts after all.

I'll shut up and just let the pics do the talking--captions below each.
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Square'em up

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Full grid, just looking at possibilities--with a dozen in the set, I want no two the same.

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Some ideas in mind, I cover up the mess and apply a basic uniform pattern to each square so I can then branch out as I progress.

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First four off the work rest.

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Working into a little more complex patterns. And yes, that is a throwing Star of David in the upper right--Ninjews need tools too.

I've four more left, but I'll give the grinder a rest for tonight and work on one of these EDC's handles.

Thanks for looking and any feedback.
 
"Ninjews". - LMAO!! Thanx for the laugh after a couple of long hard days at work!

Just remember, ninjas are common and fight in public often...


-Xander
 
Sam--Thank you! Like i said before, your work's been a real inspiration past year and a half.

Fast--And very, very sneaky.
 
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Just something to consider:
Thrown objects work if they have aerodynamics. If they are irregular, or unbalanced, they tumble and don't spin right.
Making symmetrical and evenly shaped shuriken will be a better use of the damascus. If they are strictly for fun and will be wall art, then make them as duckies and giraffes, but if they are going to be thrown at a target, make them so they will spin evenly. Pay special attention to the side to side profile, as any unevenness in the grind from side to side will make them curve when tossed.

I am not a martial arts master, But I did stay at a Holiday Inn once- from what I have seen offered online, many shuriken seem to be for mall ninjas not actual throwing.

I realize that there are folks who can throw any object and hit the target, but starting with an aerodynamic object makes better sense.

There was a video a few years back of this kid ( British, IIRC) who could throw anything...and I mean anything....and make it stick. He threw crowbars, screwdrivers, bic pens, cards, forks, etc. I bet someone has that video link stored in their favorites.
 
bladsmth said:
Just something to consider:
Thrown objects work if they have aerodynamics. If they are irregular, or unbalanced, they tumble and don't spin right.
Making symmetrical and evenly shaped shuriken will be a better use of the damascus. If they are strictly for fun and will be wall art, then make them as duckies and giraffes, but if they are going to be thrown at a target, make them so they will spin evenly. Pay special attention to the side to side profile, as any unevenness in the grind from side to side will make them curve when tossed<snip...>
Click to expand...

Stacy, I agree 100% on the mechanics of your statement, but I am willing to bet that these will have enough mass and a low enough in-flight rpm that even a chisel ground version will be unaffected. Unless someone like Noland Ryan were to wind up and chuck it at you from the mound to home plate (90 ft for you non-Americans), I don't think there would be a noticeable deviation from a traditional back hand (like a frisbee) throw at say seven paces which would more traditional or accurate in usage.

Just my thoughts, I'm no expert, but I have stayed at a Motel 6 for a few hours once...:D


-Xander
 
DNSCTMN (Dang Near Snorted Coffee Through My Nose) upon viewing pic above. That is several steps above LOL.
 
Thank you all for the input.

Stacy, thank you for the concern and trust me--the aerodynamics factor here hasn't been lost on me, and fully intend to maintain consistent balance....one of the reasons I wish I could do a little forging with them. If I could draw out the tines and bowl the centers by hammer, I could more readily anticipate spin.
While Mall ninja shuriken are just flat metal, true dai-shuriken are either domed like starfish to accent a spin like a top or dreidel, or bowled like a flower so as to create the foil like updraft.
Historically, The Tokugawa Shogunate (Edo period from 1603-1868) may have offered Japan the longest period of political unity any nation has ever seen, but it was also the era of assassination. Traditional thrown weapons such as Kunai or Bo-shuriken were heavy in comparison and difficult to conceal--the shuriken as we know it now didn't fully emerge until after 1635 when a the wife of a dishonored samurai killed the magistrate of a lesser township in provincial Nara. Aware she'd get no more than 15 paces to the magistrate, she'd had a 4-pointed lotus blossom forged which she'd dipped in poison. In truth, this is the considering point for most of its offspring--while the edges are obviously not long enough to kill by getting that lucky strike on a major artery or vein,their true intent was delivering some lethal concoction so a simple scratch would be enough to do the deed.
When I made this one:
http://alefforge.com/my-work/cherry-blossom-shuriken/
I dimpled the center by gently swaging the center on a 2" trailer ball secured through my ASO's hardy hole. There are five major critical areas to shuriken construction that will determine the difference between conversation pieces, and functional.
The first is obviously weight distribution and balance--two opposing legs MUST be slightly longer than the others, this drives a spinning action.
The second is the center mass--it's a star and should allow weight to radiate from the center--if the center weighs more than the sum of the tines, it will lack the centrifugal force needed to stay aloft.
This contributes to the third and fourth factors--tine design:
Third is the fact that the edge geometry must encourage air flow--double bevels have alternating flat and convex,chisel edges are alternating with a microbevel on the opposing edge--both to pull air up through and over the design and assist in a foil action.
Fourth is what I guess you could reflect on as the "ballistics" to a design: the combined weight ratio of the tines, the number of tines, and placement must allow for unilateral shock--when it strikes home, it has to be able to operate like a tuning fork and the impact is passed from one side to the other. Otherwise, it'll fail to penetrate and just bounce off.
The fifth is over all bisection and radius--for every quarter of tine, the center must rise or dimple accordingly by one-one-thousandth; and why they were typically kept to 2-2.5" point to point--For a shuriken over 3" to fly with any reasonable spin and accuracy, the tines must then take an effective upward or downward curve. The Cherry blossom shuriken I linked above, for example, to meet the customer's requested dimensions I had to give the tines a noticeable down curve. Face down on a table top, the fingers act as a bridge although you'd be hard pressed to slide card stock (perhaps .020) underneath. On the reverse, it spins like a top. I wasn't happy with that as it necessitated a cross body, side arm throw, but I'd warned the customer to that effect when he'd laid out his request for having a 3" piece.

All the pieces will be surface ground to ensure flat surfaces before I begin grinding bevels, but the bevels will the the longest part of this process. However, that's the requirements if they are to be more than wall hangers and why I decided to do this as a WIP--profiling is the easy part...now if only we weren't in the middle of a monsoon and I could fire up the grinder.
Still, I do worry about them being functional despite the fact I've the feeling most of my normal clientele won't be tempted to use them--I have a hard enough a time convincing them to use what they already buy, some folks just can't seem to get comfortable using a custom knife.
None the less, I'll try to record their maiden flight(s) for posting when I'm done.
 
No, you are not.

On the first day of March , in 1541, Klesama Taro stated to the Emperor of Japan that he had captured a fallen star, and had forged it into a magical weapon. He said that he could throw it across the Sea of Japan, and kill the Emperor of China. The Emperor asked if this was true, and he replied, Yes, my Lord, I'm sure I can. Thus the name stuck. It took him exactly 31 days to post the results....and now for something completely different....."Always look on the sunny side of life."
 
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Stacy--Love it. I wish the forum had a like button--that's one of my favorite stories.
One day I hope to meet you in person to present you an 1926 reprint of a 1700's Ogasawara Ryu Ky&#363;jutsu text that Sensei Ashigaru-sama gave me when I completed my Masters in Literature. After everything I have learned (and still learning) from your work here, none the least your togi tutorials, it would be the least I could give to a teacher. D&#333;mo arigat&#333; Sensei Apelt-sama.
 
I don't know doodly about throwing stars, but I've found this thread very interesting and entertaining. Thanks! :)
 
bladsmth said:
No, you are not.

On the first day of March , in 1541, Klesama Taro stated to the Emperor of Japan that he had captured a fallen star, and had forged it into a magical weapon. He said that he could throw it across the Sea of Japan, and kill the Emperor of China. The Emperor asked if this was true, and he replied, Yes, my Lord, I'm sure I can. Thus the name stuck. It took him exactly 31 days to post the results....and now for something completely different....."Always look on the sunny side of life."
Click to expand...

Do Itashimashite, korogi.

For those who are still scratching their heads:
Yamada Taro is the Japanese equivalent of John Smith. Thus Kleesama Taro is John Cleese.
I think all got the "I'm sure I can" = shuriken.
The reference to the almost supernatural powers of ninja weapons is poking fun at the myth vs the reality.
 
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