Wolf for a watchdog

golok

golok

Joined
Oct 20, 2000
Messages
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I have read a story once a long time ago that a guy reared a wolf cub from infancy.

Later that cub became a full grown adult wolf, and it looked like a wonderful companion. So dog is not necessarily a man's best friend.

A wolf can be too. Say, if I am staying away from the city and deep in the countryside, is it advisable for me to rear a wolf cub too.

I hear wolves make great pets and probably a great companion too. Who has such a pet?

Any dangers that I should know of?

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Make Love your strongest weapon. Compassion your shield and forgiveness your armour.
 
I don't know about a pure wolf, but there are a lot of people recommending against the wolf/dog cross breeds you can buy. There are probably people on this forum that will go both ways, but I wouldn't own or live near a wolf/dog cross breed if I had any children. JMHO
 
Speaking as a biologist and zoologist, I would strongly advise against it. Wolves are wild animals and there are good reasons why they have not been successfully domesticated (see Jared Diamond's book, Guns, Germs, and Steel). And there are numerous cases of serious injury and even death caused by someone's "pet" wolf.

Check out this site:
http://www.wildwolf.org/NEWHOME.htm

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
Fifteen years ago, when I lived in Arizona, I was loosely involved with a large group of people who all raised wolf hybrids. They were incredible animals, to walk and play with them bordered on the mystical for though they looked very much like dogs they were not, they didn't do what you expected, there was play but there was tenderness and independence and contemplation, and there was an edge to everything.

The tenderness was most evident when you watched them play together. One of them was mostly a dog, and was the mother of another. The one that was mostly wolf and was clearly the strongest, the fastest and the largest looked and acted so much like the big brother, chasing the other two around and around and then being chased in turn but stopping every now and then to look around, always seeming to be watching out for their feelings as well as their well being. But what struck me the most was how He, and the others, treated their human companions, the relationship seemed just that, as companions, perhaps not even that close, there was respect present on the part of the wolves but the relationship seemed very fluid and continualy being reviewed. I remember while palying with them that I jumped up a large series of rocks to stand well above the large male and how he stood, gazing at me, seeming to contemplate many things, one of which seemed to be his reation to me and perhaps even my relationship to the group as a whole. I can't say what was going through it's mind, only that it was a chilling feeling, very un-dog like, a reminder to me that when dealing with them to treat them with respect. Chilling but good. A reminder that life is an edge, nothing is certain and not to take it for granted. I liked dealing with them. They seemed to look at you with fresh eyes each meeting, to be unhindered with predjuidice and ego and demanding that you treat them the same. They might be ok with children, if perhaps they accepted the child as one of their own, but definately not the family dog. What is striking me odd at this time, something I never thought of then, was that I don't ever remember them licking anyone.

I would love to have a wolf hybrid but it seems odd to lock a frined up in a cage, and that is what they seemed like, a dog truely capable of being a friend, of having their own life and sometimes sharing moments of it with you.
 
Had a full blooded wolf for a while before he was poisoned. He and my toddler son grew up together. My boy was HIS cub. They were never alone together but there were never any incidents either. I don't recommend them for anybody. Even though I had great results, I believe that is the exception, not the rule. I hand raised him from 6 weeks old but there were still times that we wondered about each other. Admire them, respect them, but don't get one for a "pet" as you will be dissapointed.
 
Look up wolf hybrid on dogpile. There are TONS of rescue centers and people wanting to get rid of their animals. My friend has a 42% wolf, and it behaves very well. However, It doesnt like people too much and would probably run from a burglar. Lineage is EVERYTHING with these animals. Unlike a family dog, many hybrids demand HUGE amounts of attention. They will NOT tolerate bieng locked up, left in a car or house all day. They MUST be able to run. Depression with many animals can be common, due to their owners not paying attention to them. They are not a family pet. They are a large responsibility. I looked into getting one and realized that although it would be "cool" bieng cool isnt in the best interest of a VERY fine animal. NW
 
Any hybrid is a big risk. Some are wonderful, but some can simply snap one day and become violent. If I was going to own a wolf, I would own a purebred wolf. However, wolves are pack animals. They form relationships as strong or stronger than most humans. If you aren't prepared for a new family member, not just a pet, don't even consider it. Even then, you have to really think whether you are willing to make that kind of commitment. Don't take it any lighter than you would take adopting a child. Actually, it deserves even more close consideration, because a wolf is a lethal predator, from a very young age. If you aren't prepared to raise it as an emotionally-healthy individual, from the very start, just walk away, right now.

Personally, I'd say that a Siberian Husky is a far better choice, for most people. They are basically just small wolves, but they were also bred to have a much calmer temprament. They still form very close bonds with their family, and are just as protective of it as a wolf, but they take to domestication far better.

Basically, a husky is the best of both worlds:

Incredibly strong for their size, frighteningly intelligent, and both fiercly independant and loyal at the same time (when they obey, it's because they want to, not because they have been bred to have no choice, like retrievers, for example).

At the same time, they are far smaller (you don't have to live on a farm to keep a husky, although I'm sure one wouldn't mind), they are more comfortable living in domestic situtaions, and they don't run as much a risk of 'snapping' that a wolf kept in captivity does.

Unless you live on a very large piece of property, and can afford to fence the whole thing in, don't even consider a wolf. We have a fenced-in area about 50 feet by 100 feet, which is plenty for two huskies, assuming they get walked around the neighborhood a few times a week.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
Wolf hybreds are against the law in some places. I would never feel safe haveing a hybred in a family with kids. The wolf part of the hybred and the pure wolf all have a inbred need to be the ALPHA MALE and is that is challanged there could be a fight on somebodies hands.

For a big dog, if you want one, go with a pure bred like the Rotweiller. Most of the horror stories you hear about Rotties is due to the owners and the way the dog is raised. Our rottie was the BEST dog we have ever had but they have to belong to responsable owners!

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Ron,
Bremerton, Washington
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Let me second what Muzzleup just said. Dogs definitely tend to be a product of their upbringing.
 
I am involve with a US Rare Breed dog called the Shiloh Shepherd which as been falsely slandered as being part Wolf. Many,many threads have discussed this. All have agreed that haveing a wolf as a pet is not good, they can NEVER be completely domesticated.

Bob
 
no, absolutely not, do not even THINK about having a wolf as a pet. #1, there are all sorts of laws all over the place that likely make it highly illegal in your area. It's certainly illegal to go steal a wolf cub from the wild to raise as a pet. Not only is that illegal, but it's stupid, as the adult wolves will tear you up when you try it.

#2, you should NEVER attempt to raise or keep ANY wild animal unless you know exactly what you're doing with it. Even the experts get hurt routinely. The former director of the Minnesota Science Museum was one of the world's foremost experts on cobras. She handled them every day for over 40 years. She made one mistake (took her glasses off for a photo because she thought she looked better), got bitten, and died. No one here is a wolf-rearing expert, and should not be messing with them. If you think a doberman can mess you up, keep in mind that a wolf can shred a doberman without so much as getting tired.

That is not to say that wolves are evil or dangerous. They're not at all - - -leave them alone and they won't bother you. But if you start messing with one, you're taking a huge risk to your safety.

People have gotten this idea that you can go out and mess around with nature because they see people like that "Crocodile Hunter" guy on Animal Planet grabbing snakes, crocs, komodo dragons, etc. like he's picking up hamsters, but you have to keep in mind that the people you see on the nature shows (even the camera people) are experts at animal behavior and knowing what to do (and more importantly what NOT to do) around wild animals. Even the croc hunter screws up. He almost got bitten in the balls by a rattler when he was messing around with the USA's poisonous snakes because he was so busy fooling around with 4 others that he failed to notice the one underneath him looking up at his crotch.

Not only that, you're opening yourself up for a whole mess of legal troubles. If some guy gets bitten by the wolf (and someone will -- they're very territorial and will not tolerate strangers coming on their turf) you're gonna be paying off the lawsuit until your grandchildren die. The legal system can be forgiving of a dogbite (the first time) since it can be argued that the dog had never been aggressive before. It gets harder to prove this with more aggressive dogs- - -if you have a pit bull or a doberman, you'll have a very hard time not losing even in the first incident. You're gonna have a MUCH bigger problem convincing a judge/jury that you had no idea a wolf could be aggressive. Keep in mind that most people, including the judge and jury, have an image of the wolf as something out of Little Red Riding Hood -- a violent animal which lusts for a kill. You won't be able to convince anyone with that kind of prejudice that your wolf was always just a cuddly pet.

In short, leave the wolves in the woods and get yourself a regular dog.

 
I have owned a hybrid wolf for years,have children,and have never had a problem with him.He is 52%wolf,48%shepherd.But,I would not own one with more wolf % then that.Its true what these people are saying.A wolf is a wolf,and you will NOT take that out of them.A wolf has a larger brain than a dog,which does tend to make them smarter.About kids.Nashoba(his name),plays with my kids daily.BUT,we cannot let other kids play with him.E-mail me and I can tell you more.There is a lot to know about choosing a hybred breeder.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by golok:
I hear wolves make great pets and probably a great companion too.</font>
Click to expand...
I think you're hearing wrong. Those who're keeping wolves professionally know they're not dogs and are prepared for what they'll do dogs won't. So it's possible to keep them, but not as "great pets", only as research subjects.

This is about foxes, but I think you'll find it interesting:
http://home.wlu.edu/~blackmerh/jsk/canid.htm

One of the things a wolf will do, always, is try to take command by violence, but possibly just once if it fails. Can get you killed. Dogs are like puppies in that they don't try if you behave like a good leader.

Also read about the New Guinea Singing Dog
http://www.canineworld.com/ngsdcs/history.html
and note how it's behaviourally different.

There's a reason dogs are dogs and not wolves, and it's a good reason which has stood the test of time. If wolves actually were better, someone surely would have abandoned dogs in favour of them long ago, don't you think?
 
A lot of people are commenting on how well their wolf or hybrid behaves around their children, and if that is the case I'd chalk it up to long term familiarity with those particular children. If it "gets out" by accident, it probably won't treat the neighbor's toddler with the same tenderness. If you are feeding this wolf with the love of a pet-owner, the wolf will probably be fed more than it could ever forage on its own in the wild. End result- one big wolf. So now you have a wolf that does not have the natural habit of avoiding people, running through the neighborhood looking to feed with extreme regularity (as you have conditioned it). I wouldn't want that weighing on my heart, and if somebody else brought one to my neighborhood I would do everything legal (NO hurting the wolf) to have it gone. It is not the animal's fault. Left on its own, it would have steered clear of all of us.
 
A woman got killed in our neighborhood by wolf hybrid a little while back. You have to take this in context. I think that I read a while back that Saint Bernards are underestimated and hurt a relatively large number of people.
 
In my opinion, don't get a cross breed, and don't get any dog for the specific purpose of having a "guard dog". A dog that is part of the family will naturally guard the family. You are setting yourself up for serious legal problems with several breeds as mentioned before. Most people that say they have guard dogs do not treat them as a friend and are playing Russian roulette with an unstable and abused animal, which is in that condition because of the human.
 
Well. . not ALL dogs will guard. I pretty much have to guard my Basset Hound rather than the other way around ;)

 
muzzleup, Griffon: wolves do not attempt to become alpha by violence. The need is actually in all dogs, as well (to varying degrees, depending on breed), but it is a mind game, not a game of physical struggle. This is why I say that you need to know exactly what you are doing. If you understand the rules of the game, it will never come to a physical struggle. However, most people do not know these rules, and often refuse to believe that any animal other than h. sapiens has the capability of real thought. If you don't understand the politics, or refuse to believe they even exist, you will end up in the beta position, to be sure.

Huskies, being the closest purebred to actually being a wolf, show this trait remarkably strongly. If I lay on the floor, the dog will come over and lay next to me. If my brother lays on the floor, the dog will come over and lay on top of him. I'm alpha, he's not.

Griffon, some people have given up dogs for wolves. That is where the husky came from - they're really just small wolves, with a slightly better temprament for living in close proximity to humans (reduction in territoriality, basically). Other than that.... ever heard a husky howl? Just like a wolf.

Jeff: as I've said, hybrids are dangerous. They can simply snap one day. If I decided to bring a wolf into the family (you do not own a wolf - you adopt it
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), I would only even consider purebreds. Same as for dogs. 'Mutts' can occasionally behave unpredictably, given the amount of strage breeding that has taken place. Sometimes a trait may be reinforced unpredictably.

cntrline, shadowfax: exactly.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
In "Guns, Germs, and Steel" Jared Diamond discusses what he calls the Anna Karenina principle. In Anna Karenina, Tolstoy wrote "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

Diamond draws an analogy to animal domestication. "Domesticable animals are all alike; every undomesticable animal is undomesticable in its own way."

You ever notice that out of all the different species of mammals and birds in the world, only a handful were ever domesticated. And not for want of trying. Humans have tried to domesticate almost all species of animals but usually with little or no success.

Take zebras for instance. Unlike a horse, when they bite you, they won't let go--until you're close to dead--one of the reasons Roy Rogers didn't ride a zebra.

No doubt our modern dogs came from wolf stock some 10,000 years ago but there still remains undomesticated species. And for good reason. They aren't domesticable. The fact that they are social animals actually predisposes them to domestication. According to Diamond: "...social structure is ideal for domestication, because humans in effect take over the dominance hierarchy. Domestic horses of a pack line follow the human leader as they would normally follow the top-ranking female. Herds or packs of sheep, goats, cows, and ancestral dogs (wolves) have a similar hiearchy. As young animals grow up in such a heard, they imprint on the animals they regularly see nearby. Under wild conditions those are members of their own species, but captive young herd animals also see humans nearby and imprint on humans as well."

However, according to Diamond, to be domesticated a wild species must possess many different characteristics and a lack of any single required characteristic dooms efforts at domestication, "just as it dooms efforts at building a happy marriage."

Domesticated species arise from centuries of selective breeding, not from bringing an animal into your home and raising it by hand. We already have a domestic wolf--it's called Canis familiaris--the dog. Try one, you'll like it, but leave the wolves in the wild. They are not pets.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
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