Wood handle - curing blocky handle syndrome

[Pendexter]

Hi BF,

I was given some advice by @Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith regarding my knife handle. Apparently, it suffered from Blocky Handle Syndrome.

Here are some photos of the before and after. The knife feels much better in my hand. It's analogous to the difference between a PM2 and a Griptilian. Slab vs 3d milled. I compared my Kephart to the Grip, and the Kephart feels much better, mostly because of the continuous handle instead of the open construction. Plus the walnut has a better feel than the G10.

For my next handle, I'll probably try a coke bottle palm swell and see what I think about that. Ergonomics has always been an interest of mine, so I'll probably be reading up on it at some point in the near future.

Before:

And after using a worn out 60 grit on a 1x30, then hand sand at 150.

 

[C_Claycomb]

If you are interested in making really good ergonomic handles, you need to try making hidden tang knives, not full tang, and you need to get comfortable using hand shaping, not power sanders. Sure, plenty of people make great ergonomic handles on full tangs, using power tools, but you are not there yet. I have seen a lot of makers make very well finished knives with handles that are not particularly ergonomic because they use power sanders and their sanding set up does not allow for very controlled contour work...even experts can be limited by tools, and the time of course. It is also going to slow you to have to guess at an ergonomic shape when you are profiling the blade, then have limited ability to re-profile it as the handle takes shape and you have a chance to feel it in 3D. Hidden tang is a little more difficult to put together, but it is a good skill to learn in itself, and it will help you with figuring out good shapes faster.

I have done a number of hidden tangs where I used 1/8th Micarta as a filler between two Micarta slabs. No need to mortise, drill, broach or make a separate guard. Final profile looks full tang but there is no exposed metal around the handle to limit shaping, or to interfere with file teeth better suited to shaping handle materials.

 

[grizzled gizzard]

You obviously made the handle less blocky, so congrats.

Full tang handles can be just as ergonomic as hidden tangs, and much easier to produce.

Look for pictures of full tang handles that please you and make more knives.

 

[Wowbagger]

Hi BF,

I was given some advice by @Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith regarding my knife handle. Apparently, it suffered from Blocky Handle Syndrome.

Here are some photos of the before and after. The knife feels much better in my hand. It's analogous to the difference between a PM2 and a Griptilian. Slab vs 3d milled. I compared my Kephart to the Grip, and the Kephart feels much better, mostly because of the continuous handle instead of the open construction. Plus the walnut has a better feel than the G10.

For my next handle, I'll probably try a coke bottle palm swell and see what I think about that. Ergonomics has always been an interest of mine, so I'll probably be reading up on it at some point in the near future.

Before:

And after using a worn out 60 grit on a 1x30, then hand sand at 150.

Ahhhhhh . . . you ruined it !


I'm only half kidding.

Here is a link (where photos are) to the thread asking : if you had all the money in the world to spend on a knife what would you have and my response LINK>>>>>
Now I'm talking practical user here and the photos at my link are folders. Still, folder or fixed, I like these handles. There are all manner of funny knife shaped things out there.
I must assume he was talking about function as well as aesthetic.
From a make it pretty stand point I'm not the person to ask to sketch out the next car to go into the Museum of Modern Art to sit next to the XKE.
but
I know when a knife feels right AND wrong in my hands.

I like 'em a bit blocky with some 90° edges with some flat areas to register my grip off of . . . witness my favorite handle shapes in my link . . . I'm in good company . . . take a look at one of theeee CLASSIC EDCs of all time the Buck 110.

Blocky huh ?
Now I don't mind a bit of waist in the handle; see my Krey Ex handled Brad Zinker Urban Trapper in the link. Oh Yeah Baby

Nothing wrong with some blockyness.
I say take them thin roundy things off and put some nice blocky ones back on (with a bit of waist).
Truck 'em. (I spelled that wrong on purpose)

 

[Pendexter]

This was my first knife, so I'm exploring different techniques to see what I like.

Now that I've had some time to handle the knife with the rounded handle, my conclusion is that for this specific knife/handle size, it was better a little blocker due to it's size. For how rounded it is, the handle should have been a little thicker and maybe taller.

So next time, either this exact same size and blocky or slightly larger and rounded/oval. That leads me to the conclusion that the rounder the handle, the larger it needs to be. The blocky handle juts out at the corners, and that makes the hand grip/grasp a thicker area, thus feeling like a larger handle. I'll store it away in my memory bank when making a smaller knife...

C_Claycomb made a very good point regarding taking my time and hand sanding. I may have noticed it before I took off too much material If I was doing it by hand.

I don't think that strength between full and hidden tang is going to make that much of a difference at 1/8" since I left it harder and ground it to be a slicer. If I was making a hard use knife then maybe the difference between full and hidden tang may make a difference.

 

[Wowbagger]

leads me to the conclusion that the rounder the handle, the larger it needs to be.

Could be.
One knife that many people like that has a skinny round . . . and slick ! . . . handle is the Buck 102.

Since I was in my early twenties I have been fascinated with that knife though, being a city slicker that doesn't skin animals, I had no good "reason" to buy one.
The end of last year I found a reason : I just want the knife.
That made it oh so much easier to slip over the edge and order it.
I bought one, with the 5160 steel no less (I prefer steel that will tarnish when I can get it; I just prefer the way they sharpen and feel in use).

Skinny little ROUND handle though . . . what can I say.
PS : I'm glad I bought the knife ! These things are cool; just something about it.
PPS : Probably if I actually used it much I would file at least one flat face on it and maybe some texture on the sides. It wouldn't look so pretty as it does stock but like I said function comes first in a user.

 

[Wowbagger]

Skinny little ROUND handle though . . . what can I say

Well I can NOW say I had my head up my keester.
I just happened to pick up the knife to put it away and it is fairly square in cross section and has a flat on the underside.
Blocky ? I leave it to you, dear reader, to decide.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I'm in the camp favoring a smooth & rounded grip. I tend not to favor 'blocky' handles and the pressure points they create in the hand when using them. Looking at the last 3 pics in the OP, I could tell I'd like the feel of that grip in my own hand. And the warm character of the walnut is an added plus as well.

Looks good to me. That's a knife begging to be put to work as often as possible.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I once posted a series of photos as part of a tutorial on handle shaping by hand. Can't find the thread on BF any more, and over on Spyderco's forum I see that it is still all hosted by Photo*uckit, so photos are not reliably visible. https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?t=44349
I did transfer the photos to Flikr, thought I had updated the thread, but clearly haven't yet.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144852763@N08/albums/72157704790630391/with/35157361663/

Might give you some ideas for basic tools and techniques.


Ergonomics mean different things to different people. There are a lot of handles that people describe as ergonomic which fit certain grips and activities like a glove, while being a bit awkward in others. People who want to use those other holds may be a lot less impressed by the "ergonomics" of that particular knife. Some knives look good, and feel good in the hand when waved around at the store or show, but can generate pressure points, hot spots and even blisters when put to use in the field. Applying real world cutting load to the tip and edge often radically changes how comfy a handle feels.

Of course, it is all this variability and challenge that makes this stuff fun!

ATB

Chris

 

[Pendexter]

I once posted a series of photos as part of a tutorial on handle shaping by hand. Can't find the thread on BF any more, and over on Spyderco's forum I see that it is still all hosted by Photo*uckit, so photos are not reliably visible. https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?t=44349
I did transfer the photos to Flikr, thought I had updated the thread, but clearly haven't yet.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144852763@N08/albums/72157704790630391/with/35157361663/

Might give you some ideas for basic tools and techniques.

That tutorial on the other forum is great. You should definitely transfer if over to BF. I appreciate the thought process and explanations that went with the photos, especially regarding the pear-shaped butt.

Ergonomics mean different things to different people. There are a lot of handles that people describe as ergonomic which fit certain grips and activities like a glove, while being a bit awkward in others. People who want to use those other holds may be a lot less impressed by the "ergonomics" of that particular knife. Some knives look good, and feel good in the hand when waved around at the store or show, but can generate pressure points, hot spots and even blisters when put to use in the field. Applying real world cutting load to the tip and edge often radically changes how comfy a handle feels.

Of course, it is all this variability and challenge that makes this stuff fun!

I agree that what feels good at the store doesn't necessarily feel good during hard use. I especially don't like the use of finger grooves in the handle. When it comes to the ZT0562, the double grooves in the handle look nice, but when the hand is gripping hard, the fingers want to come together for a power grip, and the grooves get in the way of that. The XM18 is better since it only has one groove instead of two, but I prefer the handles of the PM2 and Griptilian in regards to handle flexibility and design.