Wood Handle Maintenance

Walnut doesn't go rancid?

What about but allergies?

No, it doesn't go rancid. Oil doesn't spoil after it polymerizes. That's why walnut oil is special, it polymerizes without requiring heat.

Allergies? Yeah...I don't know. Maybe find someone who's allergic to walnuts and spread some walnut oil on their flatware. See what happens. Call it science.
 
Thats cool man -- i'll look into walnut; I've just always been concerned about organic oils going rancid.If it doesn't, thats a good thing to know.
 
Thats cool man -- i'll look into walnut; I've just always been concerned about organic oils going rancid.If it doesn't, thats a good thing to know.

It will go rancid prior to polymerizing though (i.e. when it's in the bottle). It actually spoils more quickly than most other oils. I wouldn't buy it if isn't being refrigerated prior to sale. If you order it from a good online distributor, they usually ship it with cold packs.

You'll be able to smell if the oil goes rancid in the fridge.

Presuming you put good, un-spoiled walnut oil on a piece of wood, it won't ever spoil after it dries.
 
I say: smear whatever you want on your knife. Ain't no skin off my balls.

If you're interested, I'd suggest looking into the FDA's track record. Maybe start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Food_and_Drug_Administration

The trace amounts of oil that will be left on your hands and blade when doing food preparation will not cause any harm to the human body even if performed over a lifetime. I do not consider Wikipedia a reliable scientific reference on this particular matter. I have had my share of chemistry, organic chemistry and biochemistry, and your assertions regarding a potential health risk are just unfounded. It is fine if you do not like it, then don't use it.

No, it doesn't go rancid. Oil doesn't spoil after it polymerizes. That's why walnut oil is special, it polymerizes without requiring heat.

Allergies? Yeah...I don't know. Maybe find someone who's allergic to walnuts and spread some walnut oil on their flatware. See what happens. Call it science.

Natural oils contain predominantly triglycerides. This is a glycerol molecule with three polymers (fatty acid chains) bound to it by ester bonds. The fatty acid chain length as well as the degree of saturation dictate if an oil will be solid or liquid at room temperature. Butter, for example, is a solid at room temperature. It has relatively long fatty acid chain length, and very few C,C double bonds. So we call it fairly saturated. Natural oils will become rancid because of oxidation of the C,C, double bond. Unsaturated or polyunsaturated natural oils are all prone to this type of degredation because they have a high number of C,C double or even triple bonds. Walnut oil is liquid at room temperature which tells me that it has some degree of unsaturation, hence prone to oxidation (rancid). Butter, on the other hand, is fairly resistant to oxidation, again because of the high degree of saturation. When oil dries (sort of) on a surface, it does not undergo spontaneous polymerization. So I do not understand what you are talking about when you say the oil polymerizes. Oil is already a polymer. Drying of natural oil is the result of oxidative degredation and loss of volatile fatty acids from the oil, hence making it more viscous. During this process, natural oil can, and will, become rancid.
 
The trace amounts of oil that will be left on your hands and blade when doing food preparation will not cause any harm to the human body even if performed over a lifetime.

Okay. Prove it. I'll galdly revise my opinion if you can supply compelling evidence that it's not a valid opinion.

I don't understand why this is such a contentious issue. Seriously...the purpose of food safe mineral oil is make you sh!t uncontrollably. If you want to put that on your knife, go for it.

I do not consider Wikipedia a reliable scientific reference on this particular matter.

Neither do I. See the bit where I said "maybe start here". The FDA, like most government regulatory agencies does not have a sterling track record. Research it. Or not. I don't care either way.

It is fine if you do not like it, then don't use it.

Great. Thanks. I'll continue to not use mineral oil. Glad we got that sorted.

...I do not understand what you are talking about when you say the oil polymerizes. Oil is already a polymer. Drying of natural oil is the result of oxidative degredation and loss of volatile fatty acids from the oil, hence making it more viscous. During this process, natural oil can, and will, become rancid.

I'm not sure if polymerizes is the correct term, but what I'm talking about is this: walnut oil contains linolenic acid and linoleic acid. When these acids (particularly Linolenic acid) contact oxygen they form a strong, hard film.

From this link:

Walnut oil polymerizes when it comes into contact with the air. "Polymerize" is a word I've been studying a lot lately with my reasearch on seasoning cast iron. This is where a liquid oil gets its molecules re-arranged into something hard and inert - rock-like. Paint-like. It is still the same edible molecule. If you bust off pieces, you can eat it. Most oils will polymerize with heat and time (the seasoning process of cast iron). Some oils make a stronger surface than others. Walnut oil may not be the best choice for cast iron, but according to my research, it is the best choice for woodenware. Once polymerized, it cannot turn rancid. All you need to do is buy a little walnut oil and rub it on. Warming it slightly first will help it to penetrate the wood.

If any of this is wrong at the chemistry level, feel free to correct it. I'm no chemist.

But I am someone who isn't terribly fond of rubbing petroleum based laxatives on my knives and cutting boards. And I've had good results with walnut oil, so I mentioned it as another option for those that might be interested. Those that aren't interested don't need to worry about it. Right? This isn't personal. This is walnut oil.

I'm not even sure how much it matters where knives are concerned. I will offer this though: it does matter in the kitchen on cutting boards. Mineral oil doesn't harden. It stays in a gloopy, pliable film. As you slice into the film on cutting boards, you allow bacteria to get under the film. This is not the case with oils that harden or polymerize or whatever.
 
Okay. But I am someone who isn't terribly fond of rubbing petroleum based laxatives on my knives and cutting boards. And I've had good results with walnut oil, so I mentioned it as another option for those that might be interested. Those that aren't interested don't need to worry about it. Right? This isn't personal. This is walnut oil.

I'm not even sure how much it matters where knives are concerned. I will offer this though: it does matter in the kitchen on cutting boards. Mineral oil doesn't harden. It stays in a gloopy, pliable film. As you slice into the film on cutting boards, you allow bacteria to get under the film. This is not the case with oils that harden or polymerize or whatever.

I get it, not at all contentious. My point is that it has already been proven by the FDA through clinical trials and decades of use that the occasional ingestion of USP mineral oil at the prescribed dosage has no adverse health effects on humans at the dose of 1 to 3 tablespoons (15 to 45 ml). My point is that the amount of mineral oil transferred from a knife and hands to the food during food preparation is probably tens of thousands (or more) times less than the recommended dosage as a laxative. At the above dosage, reported side effects include: Rectal seepage, anal irritation, pruritus ani, rectal reflex impairment, infection/impaired healing of anorectal lesions. Not something I would want (man I am glad we do not have the smell-o-vision app for this discussion). I am confident in saying that the trace amounts of USP mineral oil transferred to foods from knives during food preparation will have no ill effects.

Your point regarding mineral oil use on cutting boards is well taken. Since this oil is completely saturated, it is resistant to oxidative degradation and will remain unchanged at room temperature environments for a long period of time. I think this is why many makers of cutting board treatments put paraffin wax into their mixtures. The oil is absorbed into the wood via capillary action, and the wax forms a seal on the surface. Mineral oil only treated boards will be more prone to being cut deeper, and hence introduce bacteria into the cuts. But this is true regardless of the cutting board material. Care and hygiene are definitely called for. Dedicated raw meat boards and cooked meat boards should be implemented as well as vegetable boards, if you are that concerned about bacterial contamination. But again, bacterial infections are a numbers game with the human body, and cooking kills bacteria. What you want to avoid is contaminating something that you are going to put a lot of bacterial growth media into (mayonnaise, salad dressing) and then store for an extended period (potato/pasta salad).

Linoleic and Linolenic acids are unsaturated fatty acids, and they can go rancid as described above. However, I am not aware of any adverse effects of ingesting rancid oil. My understanding is that they just stink. The seasoning of a cast iron pan is a different animal altogether. That process is referred to as carbonization. The carbon in oils, proteins, starches and other organic compounds is heated to give off CO2 and other gasses and a film of essentially elemental carbon forms on the surface of the iron, hence protecting it from rust.

I do get it that you do not want to ingest a petroleum product. And for those like minded individuals, your walnut oil suggestions appear to provide a good alternative. But the science says that occasionally ingesting USP mineral oil at much larger doses than the trace amounts on a knife is safe, so I would turn the table and ask that you to prove that ingesting trace amounts from a knife blade or handle is not safe. The only scientific data that I am aware of indicates that it is safe. If you have data indicating otherwise, I am certainly open to it, and would even change my position, assuming that the study was performed properly.
 
Thought this was an interesting thread. Just spent a little time online looking up recent research on this. One study that kept popping up (referenced) was a 2012 study by the European Food Safety Authority, which estimate that the "background" exposure to food grade (class 5, highly refined) mineral oil is about 0.7 mg/kg body weight. This is mineral oil we are exposed to by touching paper/cardboard, and eating food, especially grains. I guarantee that the amount of mineral oil left on a knife after a rubdown, and then subsequently added to the food you cut up, is WAY less than the "background" exposure that each of us receive everyday without even knowing it. By the way, these levels are shown to have no negative effect on humans.
 
Allergies? Yeah...I don't know. Maybe find someone who's allergic to walnuts and spread some walnut oil on their flatware. See what happens. Call it science.

You obviously don't have a child that is allergic to tree nuts. Or I doubt you'd be so flippant.
 
You obviously don't have a child that is allergic to tree nuts. Or I doubt you'd be so flippant.

Thank you velosa. I'm sure everyone that carries an epipen for their kid feels the same way.
 
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