Wood to stag - transforming a Russ Andrews hunter.

Kevin Jones said:
I don't get to tangled in semantics or like to pick nits either, it's just that when some makers take the time and apply the skill required to product a true "matched set" (as the Gann creation below), I think it diminishes their efforts when some (you did not above) call similar knives matched sets.
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I don't think it diminishes anything at all. There are varying degrees to which knives in a set can "match". Tommy did a fantastic job in turning out two damn-near identical knives, but that is hardly the defining point of what makes a "matched set".

Kevin Jones said:
I realize this, however there's collectors who re-assemble and collect "JS"&"MS" test sets who may end up disappointed in the future to fine Russ's "JS" set is not complete after much research time invested.

An example is Ed Fowler's "MS" test set that was recently sold by Blade Gallery for many thousands of dollars.
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Do you know for a fact that the Fowler set was "re-assembled" after "much research time invested" (as opposed to having been kept in-tact all along)?

In any event, that seems rather besides the point in this case. Surely a careful collector would make his (obvious) starting point contacting Russ, who would tell him that one test knife had been re-made to the customer's specifications. Can't really see how "much research and time invested" would be likely be lost in this case.

Kevin Jones said:
In addition, I just think we should keep forged knife history and accomplishments in tact whenever possible. Just my opinion, probably should not have mentioned it. ;) :)
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Well, it's your choice. As a rule, I try to refrain from telling other people what they should do with their collecting, unless they ask. Even when they do, I make it clear that I take a certain approach for certain reasons; that others may take a different approach for their own reasons. I don't make categorical statements about what other collectors should do. It avoids the hubris inherent in the assumption that there is one best approach that all others should take. That's my choice.

Just to re-cap:

1) Russ, who made the knife, doesn't mind.

2) Yours truly, who purchased the knife, doesn't mind.

3) You mind.

4) Some notional collector of re-assembled test sets might mind.

I am okay with all of the above. :)

Roger
 
Roger, the knife is GORGEOUS. I WANT IT BACK!!!! WAAAAHHHH!

I agree with you about the sets! I like collecting similar multiples from the same makers. Rarely do makers make true "sets". I would guess that Fowler MS set was made over a period of a few years! Usually, blades are forged and some get tossed on the pile to make today and some hang around for years...

I have a "set" of Fisk knves with Curly Maple-a Sendero, Comanchero, and AR Camp knife. They are all Fisk knives from different eras, with different marks, and different guard materials. They look great together. They are not a "matched set" but complement each other like your Andrews knives do.
 
Roger,

The way I see it is you have every right to do as you please with your knives. And, for what it's worth, I think the knife in question looks great and I like it much better with the stag.

Bill
 
RogerP said:
I don't think it diminishes anything at all. There are varying degrees to which knives in a set can "match". Tommy did a fantastic job in turning out two damn-near identical knives, but that is hardly the defining point of what makes a "matched set".

We obviously disagree as to definition of "matched sets" and "sets". But that's OK.

Do you know for a fact that the Fowler set was "re-assembled" after "much research time invested" (as opposed to having been kept in-tact all along)?

In fact, it was not re-assembled. But then that was not the intended point for my example. The point was that some collectors put high value in collecting "JS"/"MS" sets as obvious by the HUGE price paid for the example.

In any event, that seems rather besides the point in this case. Surely a careful collector would make his (obvious) starting point contacting Russ, who would tell him that one test knife had been re-made to the customer's specifications. Can't really see how "much research and time invested" would be likely be lost in this case.

Over the years makers forget things as they make hundreds of knives. And how many times a month do collectors post here looking for information on makers that have dropped out of touch? Not saying Russ forgets or will drop off but is happens.

Well, it's your choice. As a rule, I try to refrain from telling other people what they should do with their collecting, unless they ask. Even when they do, I make it clear that I take a certain approach for certain reasons; that others may take a different approach for their own reasons. I don't make categorical statements about what other collectors should do. It avoids the hubris inherent in the assumption that there is one best approach that all others should take. That's my choice.

Roger, I said my opinion. I thought opinions were allowed here. You are of course allowed to do whatever you please with your collection, however others are allowed opinions to your post.

In addition; preserving forged history and accomplishment is probably a popular opinion here.

Kevin Jones said:
In addition, I just think we should preserve forged knife history and accomplishments whenever possible. Just my opinion, probably should not have mentioned it. ;) :)
Click to expand...

Just to re-cap:

1) Russ, who made the knife, doesn't mind.

2) Yours truly, who purchased the knife, doesn't mind.

3) You mind.

4) Some notional collector of re-assembled test sets might mind.

I am okay with all of the above. :)

Roger
Click to expand...

Roger in being a lawyer, you are trained to argue points and make people see things your way. So I'm not going to argue points back and forth with you for days as some choose to do. Same as I would not try to make a better knife than Jerry Fisk.

So as I have my opinions, you have yours and others have their's, I will leave it at that.
 
Oh come on fellas, can't we all just get along??? ;) :D

Roger, I thought the "old" version was awesome... but the "new" version is spectacular!

I need to make more knives, and use some of that gorgeous stag I have saved up!!! :D

Kudos to Russ for a fantastic job! No surprise of course. I think that it was ultimately Russ's call on the "yay or nay." Just like Roger said.

While it is possible that someone in the future may want to gather Russ's 5 test knives for their collection and be turned off by the changes made... That requires a great many WHAT IF'S!!! LOTS of 'em.

However, in the here and now... Roger wanted something different, and Russ was okay with it. Another show-case of Russ's skills, and another fine collector made happy. Seems like a good thing all around.


As a side note, personally, I would rather rebuild a knife from scratch than re-handle one, but that's just me.

I don't want to get into semantics, but it seems like those two are a matched set now. Like they say, it's not all just about where you start from, but where you finish. ;) :D

Great job guys!!! :thumbup:
 
Kevin,

There is a sunstantial difference betwen saying:

1) This is what I choose to do.

and

2) This is what everyone else should do (or should not do).

The latter is an opnion, true - but it presumes much.

Thanks to all for your comments.

Roger
 
RogerP said:
Kevin,

There is a sunstantial difference betwen saying:

1) This is what I choose to do.

and

2) This is what everyone else should do (or should not do).

The latter is an opnion, true - but it presumes much.

Thanks to all for your comments.

Roger
Click to expand...

Once again Roger, you are using this forum as a court room in twisting what's actually said to build your case.

NO WHERE have I said in this thread that everyone else should do or not do anything. I stated the word SHOULD one time followed by just my opinion.

My opinions are just that and can't make anyone do anything other than agree or disagree.
 
I agree on one thing; Russ did one hell of a job reinventing that one AND Roger got a great present in time for Christmas.

Great work, guys! :thumbup:


- Joe
 
Kevin Jones said:
In addition, I just think we should preserve forged knife history and accomplishments whenever possible. Just my opinion, probably should not have mentioned it. ;) :)
Click to expand...

Unless the "we" in the above statement referred exclusively to the two of us, then yes, you were saying what everyone else should do. As I said, it was an opinion - and one which presumed much in the context of a maker and collector who clearly chose to do differently.

I can't help you see it any more clearly than that.

Kevin - you chose to interject this notion of what a not-inexperienced collector and not-a-newbie maker SHOULD have done when the narrative clearly adverted to the fact that BOTH maker and collector had turned their minds to the significance of the piece as a JS test knife.

Are you really shocked and amazed that I have not warmly embraced your pronouncement that I should not have had this knife re-handled? And please, don't try to pretend that this was not your suggestion.

And one more time in simple terms - telling people what they SHOULD do IS expressing an opinion - but it is one which may not always be well received. Of course you are entitled to express it if you choose to do so - just be prepared that not everyone will hungrily lap it up and ask for seconds.

Roger
 
Thanks for the comments, guys. They're much appreciated.

When Roger first suggested rehandling this piece, the considerations that
entered into the decision were...That he wanted it done, and that we
both thought the piece would be improved. That someone might wish
to reassemble those 5 JS test pieces was'nt considered, but the
decision would probably not have been different either way.

IMO..it's the role of the knife to bring the client a measure of
pleasure/satisfaction through its ability to work, through it's
ownership, and/or through it's resale........rehandling this
piece enhances it's ability to fulfill that role.

The kinfe....
As was suggested, It was necassary to strip the knife down
to a bare blade. The blade was refinished, and everything from
guard to butt was replaced.( I like it better now too. )....

Thanks...!
 
My Master-smith set was developed as a set. Each blade forged and completed to my highest abilities at the time. I selected absolutely premium sheep horn and carefully worked each handle to make its own statement. I wanted them to stay in my family and no intention of ever selling them.

Paying for my fathers medical care, a lawsuit and a year not being able to make knives due to a shoulder injury put me in a financial hole that dictated I had to sell them.

Thanks to a banker who had faith in me, three great attorneys and good friends, many of whom I have never met personally I survived through some tough times. While they are no longer in my biological family, I feel that they are in the good care of a much closer family, one developed by choice of all concerned.
 
Kevin Jones said:
In addition, I just think we should preserve forged knife history and accomplishments whenever possible. Just my opinion, probably should not have mentioned it. ;) :)
Click to expand...

For anyone who isn't aware or visited, there's a museum in Little Rock dedicated to doing the above. The ABS Museum, is located inside the "Historic Arkansas Museum" in downtown Little Rock.
I was pleasantly surprised (amazed actually) upon my first trip there and enjoyed it as much as I did the King Tutankhamen Exhibit upon veiwing it years ago.

I would say there's hundreds of knives very professionally displayed and historic exhibits featuring James Bowie, James Black and others who played part in the history of the forged blade.

Our custom's forum compadres Dan Farr, Jerry Fisk, Burt Foster, Ed Fowler, Lin Rhea and Mike Ruth have knives proudly displayed there among MANY others.
IMO, it's a must see if ever in Little Rock.
 
Bladeandbarrel said:
I have a "set" of Fisk knves with Curly Maple-a Sendero, Comanchero, and AR Camp knife. They are all Fisk knives from different eras, with different marks, and different guard materials. They look great together. They are not a "matched set" but complement each other like your Andrews knives do.
Click to expand...

I would love to see some pics of those, bro. The AR and Rojo camp knives are my favorite Fisk designs.

Roger
 
Ed Fowler said:
My Master-smith set was developed as a set. Each blade forged and completed to my highest abilities at the time. I selected absolutely premium sheep horn and carefully worked each handle to make its own statement. I wanted them to stay in my family and no intention of ever selling them.

Paying for my fathers medical care, a lawsuit and a year not being able to make knives due to a shoulder injury put me in a financial hole that dictated I had to sell them.

Thanks to a banker who had faith in me, three great attorneys and good friends, many of whom I have never met personally I survived through some tough times. While they are no longer in my biological family, I feel that they are in the good care of a much closer family, one developed by choice of all concerned.
Click to expand...

Speaking of museums Ed, that would be a fine exhibit for all to see and enjoy.:thumbup:
There's so many fine knives out there that few get to see. That's one of the things that make forums so beneficial the the knife industry.
 
Returning to the topic at hand - here's one more pic of the knife:

orig.jpg


And one of the sheath alone:

orig.jpg


Roger
 
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