wootz steel

Scriven: You are absolutely correct, numerous low temp thermal cycles are essential, a high rate of reduction by forging again at low temp. is another.

The Wootz pattern is a visual representation of the structure of the steel.

With quality steel of today we can make excellent blades following what you described, and naturally more.

I would very much like to share information with the maker you mentioned, I would sincerely appreciate it if you could provide me with an email or way to contact him.
 
Ed Fowler said:
The performance qualities of Wootz are at best poorly understood today. There was a time when superior weapons were owned by elite warriors who sought the best. The pattern was not for beauty, but a hallmark of performance qualities.
Click to expand...

Of course, forgive me Ed, I now remember that you have said your blades contain wootz, nobody included your name on the list. It seems the guys that make the stuff get very particular about the crucibles they use due to the influence on the final product, what type of crucibles do you use when making your wootz?

Which performance qualities in particular are we discussing? Obviously not aestetics but specific properties?
 
Kevin: I talk about the properties of Wootz, I never claimed to be making wootz.
We don't speak the same language, nor seek the same goals and that is OK. Plenty of room for all.
 
Ed Fowler said:
Kevin: I talk about the properties of Wootz, I never claimed to be making wootz.
We don't speak the same language, nor seek the same goals and that is OK. Plenty of room for all.
Click to expand...

...so that whole dvd entitled '52100 Wootz" was merely a typographical error?
 
A technidal error, sorry. But for those who have watched it there remains little question of what we are talking about.
 
Ed Fowler said:
Kevin: I talk about the properties of Wootz, I never claimed to be making wootz.
We don't speak the same language, nor seek the same goals and that is OK. Plenty of room for all.
Click to expand...


Fair enough;) There are those days that I believe there have to be at least 1000 different dialects of English:)

If the communication gap is a trouble I will understand, but talking about the properties was one of the questions I had, if our understanding of them is poor there is no better way to improve it than discussion. I have yet to do a crucible melt all on my own, so I was hoping to learn. That would have to be at least one goal we share.
 
This is a subject which I find fascinating. Presumable you are familiar with the news aout carbon nanotubes having been found in ancient damascus blades:

http://notexactlyrocketscience.word...technology-in-an-17th-century-damascus-sword/

http://bainite.wordpress.com/2006/11/27/nanotubes-in-damascus-swords/

http://www.nanowerk.com/spotlight/spotid=1046.php


I wonder if a similar analysis done on modern wootz such as that made by Pendray or Furrer would give similar results. Even more interesting is this other article which suggests the answer may come from a totally different direction:

http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/2007/3/2007_3_51.shtml

The author does seem to know what he is talking about.

In any case, I wonder if the difficulty in forging modern wootz could be eliminated by formulating it so would exhibit superplasticity at forging temperatures as found by Sherby.

Javier
 
Matt: Your initial comment has been on my mind since I read it.

I never considered the title as misleading, when the lab and our experiments confirmed that we had achieved what we sought and more we called it 52100 wootz. 52100 was not fully developed until the late 1800's, long after Wootz. To me the difference was obvious, but to some it may not have been.

If you feel you were deceived, I will have a refund check in the mail Monday morning and truly apologise for my error.
 
Ed Fowler said:
If you feel you were deceived, I will have a refund check in the mail Monday morning and truly apologise for my error.
Click to expand...

That is truly an admirable gesture, however that is completely unnecessary. I don't think I'll ever be willing to give up this dvd - I learn from everything I can get my hands on, and this dvd is no exception!
 
Scriven said:
I have corresponded at length with a Ukrainian wootz maker who uses a different method than most American wootz makers.

American makers mostly use the Pendray/Verhooven method where the ingot is made and then repeatedly worked hot-short. Their contention is that the damascene pattern is lost if the steel is overheated at any point.

The Ukrainian/Russian method is to take the dendritic ingot and perform a high temperature anneal, 1850+^F.

After the high temp anneal, the pattern is not visible until it has cycled to critical temperature many times - about 50 times.

This method is reported to have a very high success ratio compared to the Pendray method, which is reported to have a significant rate of failure in producing the pattern on the finished product.
Click to expand...

If you have info on this maker and how I would get ahold of him or any of the other makers I would appreciate it. Yes I have no experience with Wootz but I had no experience the first time I used any steel that I now use. Everyone needs to start somewhere. It would be nice to get a pre forged billet but if all I can get is an ingot that I will have to screw up a few times that's ok also. The point is, it's a learning cycle. Yes I may screw it up and over heat it. But if you don't try, you will never know. I have screwed up on some tool steels and alloy steels that I had no idea that it was not treated the same as some of the steels that I was already using but after some reading and asking a lot of questions I got it right and still use those same steels today. If you stop learning you become complacent and you stop finding ways to improve what you do. I am just a hobbiest bladesmith that would like to find out about and try working with wootz. If anyone can help that would be great. Thanks in advance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top