Wootz steel

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Samurai Stu

Samurai Stu

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Nov 8, 2008
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Hi all,

Does any one have a straight forward ratio recipe for wootz steel? Am keen to make my own ingots but have struggled to find a recipe that makes sense.

Help!
 
Buried in myth, although Scientific American had an excellent article on the origins of wootz a few years ago. Roselli claims to have recreated wootz with its UHC (Ultra High Carbon) blades, and there may be some others. The original wootz ingots came from India, and the ore apparently had a small (but significant) vanadium content.
 
I dont think that true wootz can really be reproduced, by just getting the proportions of alloys right as far as I know the smith somehow arranges the cementite bands, through mechanical means, and somewhat through alloy content, and generally very specific, and fantastic knowledge and skills. I think the process was lost around 1700, and has yet to be completely rediscovered, some people say it wasn's hardened, or at least not very hard, allowing it to be very flexible, and still cut "a peice of silk falling to the ground" or "a rock in half and still be razor sharp" because of the cementite bands, or even carbon nanotubes. there is real potential in rediscovering the process, and then using modern technology improve upon it to create the super steel everyone is looking for check out these links


this is the best http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9809/Verhoeven-9809.html it has chemical analyisis of a number of real meusam wootz pieces known as key role of impurities it is the best acording to it the peices are around Rc 30, and pearlitic in nature only problem is that most of the alloying elements are given in parts per million
http://damascus.free.fr/f_damas/f_quest/f_wsteel/indiaw.htm
http://dark.unitz.ca/~gthomas/myweb4/replication_of_wootz.htm



don't want to burst your bubble I think its really neat that your trying, keep going maybe some of the guys here can help, if enough intelligent people with smithing knowledge are working on it perhaps wootz may one day be revived but keep us posted
 
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Thanks. Hope some one can provide a modern equivalent recipe. I know Al Pendray has been doing it successfully.
 
It can and is made but it's a labor intensive thing. You make the steel in small amounts in a crucible and hope for the best. Make sure you study it in depth otherwise you won't even come close !The Russian term is 'bulat'. www.swordforum.com has had info and there are papers describing the process.
 
Ric Furrer gave a talk and demonstration at Ashoken two years ago. Said that he had about an 80% success rate making the billets and a 50% rate getting a blade out of them. Unfortunately the billet he tried was one of the 20%. He's one of the leading world experts on this...

You can find some pictures of his talk and demo at: Ashokan 2007.
 
This stuff looks great the pattern is really small, definitely not pattern welded, but is it really traditional Wootz. Im not disputing that it is aa super high quality crucible steel, but is it the same as actual wootz found in 16th century museum artifacts?
 
It was never pattern welded ! This is where we run into terminology problems ! That's why we have separated Damascus or pattern welded [forged layers] and Wootz [. Wootz has the original dendritic pattern though it is somewhat distorted.
 
Mete, I know its not pattern welded, but what is it, is it true (as in ancient) Wootz
 
Nebulae said:
Mete, I know its not pattern welded, but what is it, is it true (as in ancient) Wootz
Click to expand...

The myth and possibly theory of Wootz is that it is about as ductile as gold, and when made into a blade it could be formed unlike any steel. But somehow after likely heat treating it could become something like adamantium from Xmen.

What little I know was the rumors of the strength of the ancient metal alloy where that it beyond anything made today.
 
65535 said:
The myth and possibly theory of Wootz is that it is about as ductile as gold, and when made into a blade it could be formed unlike any steel. But somehow after likely heat treating it could become something like adamantium from Xmen.

What little I know was the rumors of the strength of the ancient metal alloy where that it beyond anything made today.
Click to expand...
Put that one down to mythology along with katanas cleaving machine gun barrels in twain left and right.:D
 
Modern Wootz is made the same way as the old. We may have a bit more control today of composition and a better understanding of the whole process but the variables still make it an "iffy" thing !!
 
This is all great guys. I now know the history and metallurgical details of wootz. But still have yet to be provided with a recipe.
Iron = ?
Carbon powder = ?
Glass = ?
etc....
 
what are you using for glass I always thought that Fiberglas would be good, but I dunno
 
just about half cup of glass for a flux in an A6... you can use green wine bottles;)
- it provides a barrier to the atmosphere and cleans the steel abit..
 
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