Worth $500?

JTknives

JTknives

Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
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Been in talks with a guy that is liquidating his late fathers machine shop. I'm driving down there on Tuesday to see what all he has that I need. But what i'm going after is this old abrasive tool 3B surface grinder that he wants $500 for. He told me that he remembers back when he was a kid in the 60's watching his dad run this grinder. So i'm guessing this machining has only had own owner. I just got pictures of it today and thought i would see what you guys think.. I talked to salem who has a 3B as well and he gave my some pointers on things to check out when I look it over.

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I'd buy it in a heartbeat at that price. If it was under power and I could see it run, $1000 wouldn't be unreasonable.
 
If they're usable that's already worth more than you're paying. I'd be calling him to buy it over the phone right now.
Figure $20-50 per wheel new
 
It looks rough to me. Lots of rust and if it was dads, has it been used since he passed away? How long has it sat if not? Not saying it isn't serviceable but all that rust would have me concerned with what's going on inside.

I'm not an expert by any means but I flip larger tools to help pay for my knife hobby and because I enjoy fixing them up. I mention this because I have tinkered with or taken apart and restored just about every used tool I've bought so far. The surface grinder scares me because all of it is precision; the motor, the ways, etc. So if you don't have a lot of knowledge fixing stuff like that I'm not sure I would buy it if it has any kind of play or slop in the major parts or if you cannot turn it on. This could just be my inexperience but what I've read has made me do a double take when I took mine apart. And all it got was degreased and put back together. I tried fixing some slop issues but figured I'd quit while I was ahead.

Something else I would say, again because I've ran into it, is big specialty tools don't sell fast. You really need a forklift to load them, you need a lot of space and often times you need to meet special power requirements. Even if it meets your expectations I would offer him $200 for it. You can always go up and he knows its rough looking at the least. And if you are not hard pressed you can let him sit on it for a while and he may call you back and accept your offer. If its the guys kid and he doesn't use it or want to store it, it means his motivation is to get rid of it which is good for you.

Sorry for the book, hopefully something in there is useful to you!

-Clint
 
Geoff Flato said:
If they're usable that's already worth more than you're paying. I'd be calling him to buy it over the phone right now.
Figure $20-50 per wheel new
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I hear what you are saying Geoff but I have been burned on things like this I thought were deals and I'd make a big profit on.

When you think about it there is not a real big market for surface grinder wheels outside of big industry. They buy a lot but they only buy new from wholesalers or suppliers they have accounts with. That leaves a very small market who might choose to look at say craig's list for a deal on surface grinder wheels. And even then most, like myself and others on here, probably just buy one or two at a time from a reputable source for their specific needs.

The other thing to keep in mind are gotchas that you may not know about. If you google "buying used surface grinder wheels" I'm pretty certain you will find some threads over on PM where they recommend against buying used wheels because you don't know how they have been treated and the ring test is not really good enough with so many unknowns. And for the price why risk a wheel exploding in your face. It does happen just look at Stan Wilson's instagram, one blew up on him!

Again just my experience and Javan will probably be along and set me straight if I'm off base on something :D He knows quite a bit about them and gave me a quick crash course over the phone when I got mine.

-Clint
 
Around here grinders go relatively low compared to mills and lathes. There's just less market for the garage shop. When I bought mine last year, I had my pick of 4 much newer/cleaner machines in the same price range.

But it depends on the area. That might be a good deal out there due to scarcity.
 
Kevin Wilkins said:
Looks like it would't be worth picking up and hauling off if they gave it to you for free...
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why do you say that?
Surface grinders are rather pricey around here. It has sat in the shop for 20 years not being used. Im guessing we are seeing a lot of gunk, dust and surface rust. it has been in the shop and not out side so im thinking the critical stuff is fine.
 
Why do I say that? Man, look at the photo, a Rusty old Junker that looks like it’s been sitting a barn for 20 years. Why would you even consider it? Here’s a pic of what a decent 1950s surface grinder looks like. Try and find something that looks more like this condition wise and then check it out real good as repairing these old machines can be a costly undertaking.
 

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Kevin Wilkins said:
Why do I say that? Man, look at the photo, a Rusty old Junker that looks like it’s been sitting a barn for 20 years. Why would you even consider it? Here’s a pic of what a decent 1950s surface grinder looks like. Try and find something that looks more like this condition wise and then check it out real good as repairing these old machines can be a costly undertaking.
Click to expand...
Nice picture, but thats in europe where its compulsive disorder keeping things neat & tidy.
 
Kevin Wilkins said:
Why do I say that? Man, look at the photo, a Rusty old Junker that looks like it’s been sitting a barn for 20 years. Why would you even consider it? Here’s a pic of what a decent 1950s surface grinder looks like. Try and find something that looks more like this condition wise and then check it out real good as repairing these old machines can be a costly undertaking.
Click to expand...
Around here that grinder would be $3-5000 not $3-500.
 
If the grinder runs, it's worth it for sure. Mine is the same machine, it looked kinda rough when I got it, but it didn't take much to get it to be one of the most used and helpful machines in my shop. Once I swapped it to belts I use it a lot for pattern welding prep and for taking chefs or san mai stock down to precise thicknesses. It's handy for folder work too, the stone can go right back on.
These are old, mine's from 1946, but they built them very stout and there were a lot made. You'd be the 4th knifemaker I know who has that same machine. The auto on them is cool, you can stand there and flip the table lever manually too while it reciprocates to vary the stroke when one-off grinding an odd shaped or odd positioned part. That might make more sense in person though....
Out here in WA they don't show up much at all second hand, and when they do good luck fining one for under $2K. I know, I looked for a few years and then bought mine for $550 when I was out in New Jersey for a welding job. Money well spent too!
 
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12345678910 said:
You can't buy that magnet new for five hundred
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My KBC catalog puts a new electro magnet like that (without controller) over $2000.

This is such a good deal, how anyone can recommend against it is beyond me.

Hell look at what used mag chucks sell for on eBay. Even if you sold mag chuck on eBay and scrapped the grinder you'd profit.
 
I'd snag it for that price if the spindle and bearings are in good shape. Obviously want to check the ways and the ball screws (especially within the first inch or so of the mag chuck), but if it's still a serviceable machine, $500 would be well worth it, even if just to have something to knock scale off and such.
 
Ok it's mine. The picture is very deceiving. It's has very little rust and a lot of dirt and grime. It has sat so long that the oil is is very sticky. The slide is very solid and tight and so is the spindle. Which is the issue. I got the spindle to move alittle but I'm guessing the oil that is in there has gon bad and gumbed it up. I'm guessing I'm going to have to pull it apart and clean it out. But it seams like a solid machine. But if worst come to worse how hard is it to rebuild the spindle. I know it's a bronze bearing with a ball bearing in the rear so I not think it would be to hard to work on. But yeah that's what it will be for is damascus prep mostly.

On another note I'm thinking about buying his Millport knee mill. It's bigger then a normal bridge port. It has a CNC conversion on it but has all the manual stuff still attached. He says the controller is blowing fuses. He wants $1000 but I bet I could get it for $800. I'm betting I could yank all the CNC stuff off it and dump it on eBay and recoup the cost of the mill or part of it. It does have an air collet draw bar.
 
JTknives said:
Ok it's mine. The picture is very deceiving. It's has very little rust and a lot of dirt and grime. It has sat so long that the oil is is very sticky. The slide is very solid and tight and so is the spindle. Which is the issue. I got the spindle to move alittle but I'm guessing the oil that is in there has gon bad and gumbed it up. I'm guessing I'm going to have to pull it apart and clean it out. But it seams like a solid machine. But if worst come to worse how hard is it to rebuild the spindle. I know it's a bronze bearing with a ball bearing in the rear so I not think it would be to hard to work on. But yeah that's what it will be for is damascus prep mostly.

On another note I'm thinking about buying his Millport knee mill. It's bigger then a normal bridge port. It has a CNC conversion on it but has all the manual stuff still attached. He says the controller is blowing fuses. He wants $1000 but I bet I could get it for $800. I'm betting I could yank all the CNC stuff off it and dump it on eBay and recoup the cost of the mill or part of it. It does have an air collet draw bar.
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If the bearings needs replaced, you may end up spending more on a set of bearings than you paid for the whole machine. Precision spindle bearings (as you may already know) don't come cheap, especially if you're needing them to hold .0002 (or better) tolerance under load. You MIGHT get lucky and be able to clean up and re-oil, but it's hard to say without seeing the machine first hand.

As for the millport, you may be looking at a relatively easy fix if it's just blowing fuses. Could be as simple as a loose wire or a bad switch. Unless you big burn spots or melted pieces inside.....
 
I looked in the manual and thy list the bearings as 307 MRB made by MCR. A quick check and it looks like I can pick up those bearings for rather cheep, under $50 each and it takes 2. It has a long guide bronze bearing after the ball bearings which if damaged would have to be replaced or made on a lathe.
 
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