Recommendation? Worth upgrading S30V Military to CTS 204P version?

Dadpool

Dadpool

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I have and love an S30V/G10 Military with CQI, but lately I've been eyeballing the Knifeworks exclusive CTS 204P Military and wondering if I'll notice a practical difference between the two.

I used to own a Manix 2 in S30V, and I do notice a practical difference between it and my current EDC, the Manix 2 LW in S110V. The S110V just cuts and cuts and cuts and never seems to get dull. Just how much S110V is blowing my mind is what got me thinking about the Millie.

I've read threads here and elsewhere about CTS 204P, and at this point my head is spinning. My EDC use is pretty light: cardboard, zip ties, plastic, and, during the summer, miscellaneous camp chores (whittling, etc.). I send my knives out for sharpening, so I don't especially care how easy/hard they are to sharpen.

I know the classic BF answer is "just buy both," but I'm not a collector and won't keep both knives if I pick up the KW Millie. ;) I don't want the KW CF/Ti S90V version, and I'm not a fan of blurple or the S110V would be an easy choice.

In my shoes, would you buy the 204P version or just stick with the S30V beauty I already have?

Update 3/16: I ordered one from Knifeworks. Thanks to everyone who provided feedback!
 
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Cardboard dulls knives very quickly, so I think you'll see the difference between s30v and 204p from cutting cardboard. Depending on the condition of your s30v millie, you'll be looking at adding at least $60 in order to get the 204p millie after selling the former. How much that amount of money means to you, only you know. With that being said, the plain jane millie is absolutely a capable knife.
 
lieferung said:
Why are you cutting with the S110V? I thought it is prone to chipping?
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Why? I'm not sure I understand the question.

I'm cutting the stuff I listed, for the most part. I just my EDC for whatever needs doing, outside of food prep and tasks like prying. I don't abuse my knives, but nothing I've cut has chipped my S110V Manix.
 
Dadpool said:
I have and love an S30V/G10 Military with CQI, but lately I've been eyeballing the Knifeworks exclusive CTS 204P Military and wondering if I'll notice a practical difference between the two.

I used to own a Manix 2 in S30V, and I do notice a practical difference between it and my current EDC, the Manix 2 LW in S110V. The S110V just cuts and cuts and cuts and never seems to get dull. Just how much S110V is blowing my mind is what got me thinking about the Millie.

I've read threads here and elsewhere about CTS 204P, and at this point my head is spinning. My EDC use is pretty light: cardboard, zip ties, plastic, and, during the summer, miscellaneous camp chores (whittling, etc.). I send my knives out for sharpening, so I don't especially care how easy/hard they are to sharpen.

I know the classic BF answer is "just buy both," but I'm not a collector and won't keep both knives if I pick up the KW Millie. ;) I don't want the KW CF/Ti S90V version, and I'm not a fan of blurple or the S110V would be an easy choice.

In my shoes, would you buy the 204P version or just stick with the S30V beauty I already have?
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I don’t know if you have experience with 204p and the m390 family but imho the steel alone is worth the upgrade.

M390 family of steels is truly magical. I find it markedly easier to sharpen and maintain than the s30v-s125v family of steels. I will never understand how they get such a high performing steel to sharpen up so easily, but somehow they did it.

Usually we try a bunch of different steels that all have different properties. For some reason the 204p and its cousins has the property that you go to sharpen it and are like “wow!” My friend who often reprofiles his knives on the KME even said he will be trying to get knives in m390 family when possible from now on. I tend to agree that the upgrade in steel is well worth the cost, even if everything else on the knife remained the same.
 
Thanks for the feedback so far! It's sounding more and more like it's worth making this upgrade happen.

Lapedog said:
I don’t know if you have experience with 204p and the m390 family but imho the steel alone is worth the upgrade.
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Zero! I've owned some knives in what I are think are similar premium steels, including CPM 20CV and CTS XHP (plus S110V, as noted), but never M390 or CTS 204P.
 
Stupid phone. I meant to type "what are you cutting". Well looks like I skimmed over the part where you list what you cut.
 
Dadpool said:
Thanks for the feedback so far! It's sounding more and more like it's worth making this upgrade happen.



Zero! I've owned some knives in what I are think are similar premium steels, including CPM 20CV and CTS XHP (plus S110V, as noted), but never M390 or CTS 204P.
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Cpm 20cv is nearly identical to cts204p so if you enjoyed that steel you will love 204p (m390 is also essentially the same steel) I don’t know if you ever bothered to pay attention when sharpening your 20cv but you may notice that it seems to get sharp much easier than its high carbide load would have you think.

I find it MUCH easier to sharpen than s110v and more willing to take a razor edge and hold it. I even find it easier to sharpen than XHP. Hell sometimes
i find it easier to sharpen than vg10 (which seems to get quite sharp too).

There in lies the magic of 204p (and 20cv and m390) they have performance that is up there with s110v but sharpen up very easily. They even reprofile easily.

Also s110v can be made to take a razor edge, but it quickly loses this and falls back to a toothy edge. 204p seems to hold that razor edge longer.
 
In a word, YES. The CTS204P Mili I bought a while back is the sharpest new knife I've ever had. I have used it for routine package opening a pretty decent amount (tape, ream-wrappers, plastic banding - I run a small printing company) and it is still sharp, even a tad sharper than my brand new MiliTiCF S90V that arrived Monday, even after use.
 
S30V is a fine steel. I've had great experience with it in numerous knives.

But 204P is on a different level. Much better edge retention , superb corrosion resistance and relative ease of sharpening. An outstanding blade steel.

And add it to a fantastic knife design like the Military. And beautiful dark green G10 and you have one of the best EDC's ever made imo.

I just ordered my 2nd and 3rd 204P Militaries this morning from KW.
 
Lapedog said:
Cpm 20cv is nearly identical to cts204p so if you enjoyed that steel you will love 204p (m390 is also essentially the same steel) I don’t know if you ever bothered to pay attention when sharpening your 20cv but you may notice that it seems to get sharp much easier than its high carbide load would have you think.

I find it MUCH easier to sharpen than s110v and more willing to take a razor edge and hold it. I even find it easier to sharpen than XHP. Hell sometimes
i find it easier to sharpen than vg10 (which seems to get quite sharp too).

There in lies the magic of 204p (and 20cv and m390) they have performance that is up there with s110v but sharpen up very easily. They even reprofile easily.

Also s110v can be made to take a razor edge, but it quickly loses this and falls back to a toothy edge. 204p seems to hold that razor edge longer.
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My experience of sharpening these steels is somewhat different from yours. Not that I don't believe you but just want to share some perspective with the OP. To me, CPM-20cv (ZT 0562cf) takes more time to sharpen than s30v (PM2 and Military), and much more time than VG-10 (Endura 4). Have not sharpened s110v (Manix 2) but just based on stropping I feel s110 will take more time to sharpen than cpm-20cv.

All these steels can get stupid sharp. In fact, even 8cr13mov and aus8 can get equally stupid sharp.
 
sharp_edge said:
My experience of sharpening these steels is somewhat different from yours. Not that I don't believe you but just want to share some perspective with the OP. To me, CPM-20cv (ZT 0562cf) takes more time to sharpen than s30v (PM2 and Military), and much more time than VG-10 (Endura 4). Have not sharpened s110v (Manix 2) but just based on stropping I feel s110 will take more time to sharpen than cpm-20cv.

All these steels can get stupid sharp. In fact, even 8cr13mov and aus8 can get equally stupid sharp.
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The different heat treats can make all the difference. Usually m390 family isn’t run to its max hardness. I find that because that family doesn’t form stubborn burrs it is much easier to sharpen. It might be down to different sharpening techniques too.

And yes all steels can get sharp (unless defective heat treat) I just meant how easily they do so. Some steels seem to take a finer edge more easily. For example 12c27 takes a fine edge extremely easily in my experience. (Fine grain structure supposedly contributes, which again can be altered by heat treats)

I find high carbide steels usually take a working edge fine but it is usually harder to get them to take ansuper fine razor edge. Just my experience.
 
I have the 204p Millie...and never carry it because i like my S30V Millie better.
(My S30V Millie has been modified to my taste, though; so it has nothing to do with the steel...it's simply better looking and more comfortable)
 
Well... a Military in S110V just followed me home today (:)), and once I've played with it a bit (and probably nicked myself), I'll do a review. Already have a Mule in CPM 20CV so I should be able to make some useful comparisons. Haven't cut myself with that one yet, either.
 
I have the 0562 in 20CV, couple of PM2s in M390, and the 204P Military.

I find that they all keep edge about the same. I also feel like I can maintain the edge with about the same effort - free handing tri-stones makes it perfect for matching any edge angles.

The big difference between the ZT and the Spydercos is the thickness behind the edge - just pulled out my calipers to confirm. I have re-profiled one of my M390s. And although I haven't done so to the ZT, I can see how it can be more difficult due to the thickness. I am sure different heat treats will make a difference.

Is it necessary to replace your S30V? Probably not. Would it be fun to have awesome new knife like the Military in a great steel like the 204P? Absolutely!

Also had couple of S30V PM2s back in the day...
 
Even if the 204P Military didn't have 204P at all and just came with S30V instead , I'd still be very interested because I find the dark green G10 gorgeous. In fact , I feel it's the best looking G10 handle available. But the fact that it comes with handsome dark green G10 AND 204P just make it my dream knife. 204P/M390/20CV are at the top of my steel choice list. If Spyderco had a custom build option , this is what I'd pick (204P/dark green G10). I also like digicamo and orange G10.
 
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Thanks for all of your feeback, folks! I ordered one from Knifeworks. :)
 
Fresh in from Knifeworks, and oh man is this knife fantastic. Thanks again for your feedback -- you folks rock! :thumbsup:

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