Would you carry a 5" knife in NJ?

C

cds1

Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Messages
237
Well, I don't think there is an official length limit for folders in NJ. At the same time, I think cops will arrest you for carrying any knife in NJ, and let you fight it out in court. So if your gonna carry a knife, might as well carry a big one! :rolleyes:

Seriously speaking, I just ordered a Cold Steel El Vaquero (the 5" version of the larger Vaquero Grande) for carry in NJ. I have the 6" Voyager, and I don't carry it, but it is very light and carryable for its size, so I figured that the 5" El Vaquero would be no problem to carry at only 4.8 ounces. As usual, now that I have ordered it, I am thinking, "What have I done!"

How many of you would have the guts (or stupidity) to carry a 5" blade in NJ? After all, it weights less than my 3.75" EDC (Chinook II). Should I give in and carry a smaller blade just to give a greater impression of legality (despite the fact that the law does not address blade length)?

I'd like to take a poll on this one...

Regards,
cds1
 
I'd check case law in that state [ not just the statute ], for if as you stated the police will charge you for any folder or straight, someone or many have gone before the courts where a ruling would be found and consequently setting precedence.

If there's precedence, there's where you'll find the answer.


Brownie
 
I've never been stopped or questioned about my small 2 3/4" bladed constant companion or my sheathed 3 3/4" bladed Buck 110. It probably depends where you're at in NJ...I just wouldn't whip out your 5" bladed El Vaquero to clean your fingernails while waiting for a bus! :eek:
 
Neither would I. I wouldn't do that with my 3.75 inch knives either. I once needed to take out a 3.75 inch knife at work to cut the rope on a box of birthday cake. They couldn't get the rope off, and someone asked, "anybody have a knife?" You should have heard the comment that I got from my boss when I pulled out my Chinook II to open the box. :rolleyes:

I will have to start carrying a teeny-tiny knife for those situations. Maybe a Victorinox Swisscard (sized like a credit card, fits in your wallet).

Regards,
cds1
 
I wonder what the chances are of ever having a problem with the police over a pocket knife if you are a well-behaved, law abiding citizen. (Assuming you don't enter a courthouse, police station, or airport with it, and that you don't enter places that demand that you give over your pocket knives to security, etc.)

If the only way the cops will ever have their hands on your knife is if you are forced to use it to defend yourself, then perhaps it is better to err on the side of a larger knife rather than a more politically correct one. After all, if it is a question of better chances of survival vs. better chances in court, which one would you pick?

Am I overlooking some other possiblity here? Have you ever heard of someone being searched by police outside the commission of a crime or unruly behavior? I am sure it can happen, but then again, so can just about anything - including a situation in which you would want to have a non-PC knife to defend yourself with.

Regards,
cds1
 
The best thing to do would be to contact the City Attorney in the city that you live in and get the correct answer from him or her, and/or go to your local library and research your state "knife-laws".
 
New Jersey - Code of Criminal Justice - 2C:39-3 e. Certain
weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession
any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk,
stiletto... or razor blades embedded in wood, ballistic
knife, without any explainable lawful purpose, is guilty
of a crime of the fourth degree.
- 2C:39-1 h. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a
blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof
by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal
force... p. "Switchblade knife" means any knife or similar
device which has blade which opens automatically by hand
pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in
the handle of the knife... u. "Ballistic knife" means any
weapon or other device capable of lethal use and which can
propel a knife blade.
- 2C:39-6. f. Nothing in subsections... shall be construed to
prevent... (2) A person carrying a firearm or a knife in
the woods or fields or upon the waters of this State for
the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing,
provided that the firearm or knife is legal and
appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State
and he has in his possession a valid hunting license,, or,
with respect to fresh water fishing, a valid fishing
license.
- 2C:39-9. d. Weapons. Any person who manufactures, causes to
be manufactured, transports, ships, sells or disposes of
any weapon including gravity knives, switchblade knives,
daggers, dirks, stilettos... is guilty of a crime of the
fourth degree.
- 2C:39-9.1... Any person who sells any hunting, fishing,
combat or survival knife having a blade length of five
inches or more or an overall length of 10 inches or more
to a person under 18 years of age commits a crime of the
fourth degree...

New Jersey Case Law:
- "Concealment was not a necessary element of the offense of
carrying a dangerous knife." (1973)
- "Concealment of weapon at time of incident constituted
important factor of offense of possession of dangerous
knife." (1971)
Click to expand...
- from Bernard Levin, http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm

Myself, I do not carry any knives over 5 inches blade length or 10 inches overall as I am 17, and I wouldn't want any trouble in that way. Aside from those 2 cases, I can find no precendents. Anyone know where to look? :confused:
 
If I am not mistaken, I believe that the state of NJ has a law that preempts cities and municipalities from defining their own weapons laws. That at least makes it a bit simpler.

I have spent alot of time searching the web regarding NJ knife law and, unfortunately, haven't found anything terribly clear other than the little tidbits that most of us know. I do have Nappen's book on NJ gun and knife law on order - maybe that will shed some more light.

Regards,
cds1
 
Check the local appelate court records for disposition of cases where one was charged with "carrying" a dangerous weapon.

The city atty: may not know the correct answer in reality, and then again, he may not answer at all for fear of being quoted. I've been told they would not answer these types questions in other states when making phone calls to the local AG's office.

The two case laws cited are 30 years old, I'm sure there is more recent case law.

Brownie
 
Hmmm... I think I am just going to call them in the morning and try to change the order to an El Hombre (the 4" version of the Vaquero). This is turning out to be more trouble than its worth. (I wonder if that is the intent of these vague laws. :( )

I hope its not too late to change the order. My wife will kill me if I buy yet another knife that I'm not going to use...

Regards,
cds1
 
It seems like a everyone has their own version of the knife law in New Jersey. I have talked to a lot of people who said that the cops use the "four finger" rule in Jersey. I think it's pretty much established that double edge knives are a big no no. I would personally not carry a large pocket knife in public, due to what happened to Alex Levine. It's just scares taxpayers. Jersey is the wrong state for knives.
 
Here's a thought even if the blade length isn't strictly speaking illegal...
Imagine your tactical blade used to defend yourself being waved around in front of a horrified jury by a Johnnie Cochran-type (or insert your favorite trial lawyer here) and then pointing at you...

Street survival- check.
Court survival- ???

For this reason, I no longer carry my SpyderHawk all the time. I'm certain that while it is a great utility all purpose knife with LESS ability to inflict lethal stabs, the uninformed will label me a "slasher" or something. A more utilitarian design may be prudent.
 
As a kid, we all assumed the law was '4 fingers' but could never find any 'men in blue' who agreed on this length. I really think the problem arises if your knife is pulled on someone (doesn't matter if it's self-defense), then you're 'up the creek without a paddle' & you'll soon find out all the laws! Heck...40 years later & I'm still not sure what is written in NJ's law books about knives. :confused:
 
Hawkbill said:
Here's a thought even if the blade length isn't strictly speaking illegal...
Imagine your tactical blade used to defend yourself being waved around in front of a horrified jury by a Johnnie Cochran-type (or insert your favorite trial lawyer here) and then pointing at you...

Street survival- check.
Court survival- ???

For this reason, I no longer carry my SpyderHawk all the time. I'm certain that while it is a great utility all purpose knife with LESS ability to inflict lethal stabs, the uninformed will label me a "slasher" or something. A more utilitarian design may be prudent.
Click to expand...

That is actually not the situation that I am most concerned about. If I actually used the knife in self defense, then, in my opinion, it has already made itself worth the legal problems it is causing me. If there is any chance that I would have not survived the encounter due to having a smaller / different blade, then to hell with court survival. Physical survival comes first.

If someone is about to kill you, and you are offered a 5" knife and a 4" knife with which to defend yourself, which one would you choose? Would you take the 4" knife because you are worried about what might be decided later in court? I don't think so.

What I am worried about is the possibility that the knife might, for some reason that I cannot think of, end up getting me in trouble without a defensive encounter. For example, it turns up on an x-ray, or a cop decides to search me for some unknown reason, etc. I don't want to end up in jail for some stupid reason.

Regards,
cds1
 
I try not much to concern myself about carrying knives,and do my best to make some sense of the Statue.Obviously,I stay away from Gravity knives,switchblades,butterfly knives for carrying.If you carry a folder and they flick it open hard,they may try to wrongly charge you with having a gravity knife"Centrifugal force" Which is constantly being missused.Every knifenut knows what a real gravity knife is using those two methods of opening.The truth of the matter is,I'm sure the Police can find many Penal Codes and try to make them fit if they wanted.The Laws in most places allows alot of room for interpetation.Some have Laws that just say "Dangerous Weapons".What is a Stilletto,Dirk etc.Most Cops don't know either,but I'm sure they can make a swiss army knife fit if they wanted.Some DA's are known for filing charges, hoping they can get a weak case to stick.Sometimes this is based on political pressures and political climates of the time period.Certain States or Cities are very weapon unfriendly,and don't care if you legally defended yourself with a legal tool.Stay out of trouble,mind your business,try to look like a clean cut upstanding Citizen.Looks matter,even though it shouldn't.If you look like a gangsta rappa,your going to get harrassed more than a guy in a nice suit or well dressed.If you have spiked orange hair and a black leather jacket,don't be suprised if you wind up being "patted down" for the Officers "safety" at some point in the future.If by rare chance you are stopped or arbitrarely frisked for no reason,be very polite,be truthful,and hope the Officer is not anti-gun or knife.Hope they haven't had a bad day.The reason your carrying the tool(knife) is for utility purposes.FYI,If you say your carrying a knife concealed for self-defense,in some places that is a crime.In certain States,they don't believe in Citizens rights to self-defense.In case of actual Self-defense use,say nothing,ask for attorney.Best of luck :eek:

edited to add some info and edit my spelling :D
 
cds1 said:
What I am worried about is the possibility that the knife might, for some reason that I cannot think of, end up getting me in trouble without a defensive encounter. For example, it turns up on an x-ray, or a cop decides to search me for some unknown reason, etc. I don't want to end up in jail for some stupid reason.
Click to expand...

In a situation like that, being a betting man, I'd bet that knife would definitely be confiscated. Don't think you'd wind up in jail...but that is one bet I wouldn't make! Someone else has alluded to '...may just depend on what side of the bed the officer got up on' that day. That I'd agree with whole-heartedly! Just to let you know where I'm coming from...lived in NJ for almost 57 years & never had any trouble with the law over a knife...fixed blade or folder. I have heard some horror stories, though. Good luck with your dilemma ;)
 
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