Would you pay $$ for 'in-progress' photos?

I would never pay money for WIP pics. In fact, I would pay money NOT to be confronted with WIP threads in this subforum. Show me knives, not parts of knives.

As a rule, I never visit WIP threads and am not about to scroll through one, no matter who the knifemaker. I have a life outside of knives.

EDIT: In contrast, if a maker has taken a few progress images of a piece I've ordered or purchased, it's a nice positive. It forms part of the piece's story/history. But a few images, unsolicited, should bear no cost.

I'm in the opposite camp.

I love WIP threads. The mechanics, methods, time, and skill it takes to produce the knives I love are very engaging to me.


They also give me knowledge and insight into making my own knives (only one completed). So far.

I also love leather making WIP's.


I am very appreciative of makers that take time to show WIP threads.

Would I pay for a WIP thread on a knife?

If I was in a position to afford knives that a WIP would be worth while, I might be willing.

As is, if I could afford a knife from you, the WIP added cost would be another knife I'm not buying.

So right now, no.
 
IMHO, Karl, your first post is perfect thing to put on your web page along with some links on your previous WIP or two. I think it is a really nice text that explains everything. If I were your customer who read that my curiosity about procedure would be satisfied and I’d knew why not to trouble you with WIP demands and if I wanted I should make sure that I’m ok with paying for it.

On the other hand, if customer picked you to make him a knife it is because he likes your work and it is only natural wanting to find out more about it and picture of the prices are (for him) easiest way to do that.

I had couple of customer wanting to be present in shop when their knife was being forged but when I treated that request as seminar and explain why would it take me twice as more time to make a knife with their presence they all turn down the offer.
 
Hi Karl, I wouldn't pay for nor would I expect a WIP. On the other side of it, I've had customers who order an especially "custom" slingshot and I will email them a few progress pics along the way, but these are not edited, not tinkered with, just snapped with my smartphone and emailed from my smartphone. For this purpose smartphones are awesome, take a snapshot and send it in about 15 seconds, 3 or 4 of these during a build and everyone is happy.
 
This is an example a short video by Logan Pearce, for Jerry Fisks's microshow 2015. Each maker had a short promotional video to feature his work. Not requiring the time expense of a WIP thread but giving a window into the processes.
Dave Lisch-
https://youtu.be/iPWr0GWdHk0

Joe Calton is a member here that puts out good YouTube videos on a regular basis on his experiments, methods and testing.
https://youtu.be/31uvA9ADdQg
David
 
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I wouldn't pay for a WIP, nor would I agree to offer one without payment.
 
I think this isn't what Karl is referring to. Correct me if im wrong, Karl, but I think the point is that there are specific customers which ask for a WIP pictorial for their specific knife. The point being that they have a detailed photo timeline of THEIR knife being made, not just a knife being made. I agree that the examples you've shown are nice, however that's not what Karl's talking about. I, too, get requests for "beginning to end" coverage of a knife, and the amount of time and effort required to do such a thing is Herculean. Despite what it sounds like, it's NOT just as easy as taking a few good phone pics. Heck, I can't get a single good shot of my work in my shop due to my lighting, and I'm an amateur photographer, too!!!!

This is an example a short video by Logan Pearce, for Jerry Fisks's microshow 2015. Each maker had a short promotional video to feature his work. Not requiring the time expense of a WIP thread but giving a window into the processes.
Dave Lisch-
https://youtu.be/iPWr0GWdHk0

Joe Calton is a member here that puts out good YouTube videos on a regular basis on his experiments, methods and testing.
https://youtu.be/31uvA9ADdQg
David
 
I think this isn't what Karl is referring to. Correct me if im wrong, Karl, but I think the point is that there are specific customers which ask for a WIP pictorial for their specific knife. The point being that they have a detailed photo timeline of THEIR knife being made, not just a knife being made.

Precisely. :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
Precisely. :thumbup: :thumbup:


Oh if it is that then it is far simplier then.

The answer is "No".

See that was not so hard :D

I must be way to big and scary because they don't even dare to ask lol
 
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I would not pay for WIP photos - and I have asked for them.

Honestly, I would have half the mind to cancel the order if someone was trying to charge me $5 for a picture of a half finished knife sitting on a work bench.

A few cellphone snaps are not worth anything - though I do believe it is a nice way to keep communication open with the buyer/maker - and it keeps people excited about the project.

A full-scale WIP with detailed photos and descriptions are another story - but thats asking a lot.
 
I would not pay for WIP photos - and I have asked for them.

Honestly, I would have half the mind to cancel the order if someone was trying to charge me $5 for a picture of a half finished knife sitting on a work bench.

A few cellphone snaps are not worth anything - though I do believe it is a nice way to keep communication open with the buyer/maker - and it keeps people excited about the project.

A full-scale WIP with detailed photos and descriptions are another story - but thats asking a lot.


I have done many WIP's for many reasons one being is for other makers to learn from but the main reason is business related. I think its about the best bang for the buck although Ive never been paid or ask anybody for payment. I do ask my customer if he would like me to post some pictures on-line for all to see and most of the time he says yes. This forum is not the place to post a WIP as there are few makers here. Shop Talk or my own knife dogs forum is perfect. There is a forum especially just for WIP's there.
 
I always ask if they would like a FEW pics of the progress and am happy to provide a FEW, but I don't have time to
Send the wIP procedure type photos.
 
I would not pay for pictures

This could be considered isn a similar vein to an advertising budget, but more with time than money.

Next time you want any forms filled out at the doctor, something that often take much more time and effort than taking some pictures, would you want to pay for that? It has been traditionally done at no charge to the patient, but that too is changing
 
Honestly,

Why is saying "No" so hard? Just tell them no and be done with it.
 
something that often take much more time and effort than taking some pictures

I'm not quite sure you understand how much work it is to take a "work in progress" photo. Just the setup time alone to get a decent image is significant. Again, we're not talking about a quick cell phone pic now and again as the knife reaches completion - we're talking about "this is me milling the slot for the guard" or "this is me rough grinding the main bevels". THAT'S what we're being asked for. I don't think there's too many folks making custom knives that don't offer a prospective customer a quick shot or two with the ol' camera phone, but the circumstances that Karl is talking about are FAR more involved than that.
 
When I was taking custom orders I would take a quick photo of the blade profiled and surface ground with the design sketch cut out and laid next to the blade but I did not send them to the purchaser...I just kept the photo in case the purchaser thought the knife looked different to the design sketch we agreed on. Never needed to it turned out. I don't think sending WIP photos helps the process for me or the buyer. Most knife buyers (not all) do not understand the steps to making a knife well enough to judge how the project is going. I have seen confusion on the faces of some buyers when looking at a half finished knife and they look worried because the knife looks imperfect prior to heat treat and finish work. Also, as Matthew pointed out it is a lot more time consuming to take the photos and if they are not good or the light makes the knife looked like it has a hairline crack or a shadow makes the knife look unusual in any way the buyer will be worried. I take photos of things I think will interest other knife makers and keep them for that reason. It can take quite a bit of effort to fully document a knife in photos and the cost will not be reclaimed in my opinion. Larry
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1. Asking for a fee for one quick and dirty phone pic of a customers knife being made is quite frankly an absurd notion.

2. Being asked for a detailed, edited, photoshopped WIP (video and\stills) of a customers knife is another kettle of fish altogether and might involve step number three (see below).

3. I fully understand the work involved in regards to a detailed WIP -as described by the OP- and how that might be (too) time consuming and also how a knife maker might not want to take time away from the work bench to make\edit such a WIP; just say no.
 
I agree with BladeScout's, and other's, main points.

Quick cell pics (email, instagram, etc..) with just a couple of photos goes along way for come customers and cost little effort wise. Here are 3 knife transactions that I've had over the years.

When I purchased my first custom knife made by EFBurke because I fell in love with it when it was posted here, he had a photo or two online showing the original sketch and a photo of the knife sitting on the bench during construction. Those photos went along way in seeing the knife not as a mass produced piece but as a one of a kind. While he's not a full time maker, he did take the time to make them available and his emails responses were fast and friendly. I still feel connected to the piece and display it.

After a lot of research, I've had a custom knife make by Chuck Gedraitis, a full time maker. The knife is a gorgeous fine precision folder and while it arrived really fast, in just a couple weeks, there were no photos of it being made so the connection to the knife itself wasn't as "special". I would happily buy more of Chucks work but it was a different interaction.

Another set of transactions were with Mr. Wheeler. I purchased a couple forged blanks and one of his larger more finished blade blanks as well as a knife vise. He sent the drawings of the blade designs with a personal message on the paper with the blades. This was followed up with a couple super friendly emails. As we all know he has numerous WIP threads showing the shear amount of work that goes into each piece and he continues to help other knife makers in an incredibly generous fashion. When and if I'm in a position to drop a grand or two for a specialty custom art piece knife, I will happily send the money his way. And would happily wait whatever time it took. The value of the his work goes beyond the product itself and leaves a positive bond with the customer.

There's a difference between buying from a store or mid-tech knife or factory. As custom knife buyer, two cell pics go along way to adding value over the factory made knives. If the knife is just going to show up with little distinction from a factory knife, why bother unless your getting investment pieces to resell. I buy from the heart and want to see the difference buying from an artisan.


For the main question about paying for more comprehensive WIP photos. As everyone has mentioned already, it takes significantly more effort if post processing is needed for the photos and time is needed for the descriptions and webpostings. I would expect to require a second person to manage the WIP while the knife is being made. I would expect an additional charge to the client if the WIP is not posted online. If it's posted online, in my opinion this is benefiting the craftsman as well and increasing his/her value, so maybe the cost to the client should be reduced (maybe 50%?).

If and when I drop some serious coin on a specialty piece, I would inquire about the ability to make it a lite-WIP at additional cost to me for the following reasons:
- Posted online, it could help the broader community and the craftsman
- The knife would more likely have a "strong" connection for me, the client, so there is value added
- While I don't plan to ever seller a custom piece, it should increase the resale value of the knife for those that are interested in investment knives
- I can show family and friends what went into that knife displayed on my mantle and explain why I ate rice for two months to pay for it.

At a minimum for custom products, the craftsman should be able to provide the original sketch or photo/scan and a couple photos of the knife along it's construction either free of charge or at very small cost. It's like getting an ultrasound of your kid. You're paying for something to be created on your behalf and you want to experience part of the process and feel connected.
 
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