Wound Care Kit, a realistic alternative...

[JohnQTaxpayer]

Don Rearic: real Dermabond huh? How much did that little guy run you?

Whoever had problems with steri-strips sticking - clean the (intact) skin surrounding the laceration to remove skin oils (soap and water preferably) then apply tincture of benzoin or skin prep (I've only used 3M's version), let than dry then put on the steri-strips. This will keep them on longer.

 

[bunghole]

Someone mentioned it I think, but what is everyone's take on CA glue as a wound closure method? I cut myself the other day and the bleeding didn't want to stop, so I used some CA and stopped it right away. Stung like hell though.

 

[Rich275]

Thanks for posting that. My carry kits are all set up for major trauma and not so much for smaller, but more frequent injuries. I'm going to have to start shopping.

 

[Don Rearic]

the 3m steri strips I have used - or had applied in an ER - in the past all let go within 12 hours.

That's not bad, that's workable. Sure, you wish they would stay on longer. But then you cover it with one of the 3M TegaDerm Dressings, anyway. You could use a piece of surgical tape over that. Wouldn't hurt none.

I have had good luck with Nex-care bandages, both the fabric and the "waterproof" versions, so it may just be a difference in the adhesive, which is why I'm willing to try their steristrips and/or butterfly bandages if I can find them.

We need someone to be the G-Pig and go all Emo on themselves so they can try them out and report back. Actually, I will have to get some and see how they hold up. I'm just not going to cut on myself.

People who give that advice worry me. I've come close to giving myself stitches before. I even had the emergency stitch kit, hemostats, alcohol, gauze, etc... out (the doctor my wife used to work for gave me all kinds of stuff!).

I have come fairly close to having to stitch myself and others up as well. I really don't want any part of that business if I can avoid it.

The needles in those kits are amazingly thin and sharp.

Yeah, there are two basic kinds, the pointy and the sharp and pointy sutures marked with a "cutter" suture needle. They are incredibly sharp.

Nothing even close to a fishhook; even the stitches are like a super thin monofilament. I've looked a fishhook over and over and can't figure out how you'd get it to work. The eye would get hung up and cause a shitload of damage. If you clip the eye off (provided you are able to) you have no place to tie the thread. Then there's the barb.

There are barbs up the shank as well. I use Eagle Claws whenever possible.

The fishhook suture theory seems more like an armchair commando theory than a valid real-world practice. Not saying it can't be done, just saying I don't see how.

It's been floating around like the proverbial turd in the punchbowl.

One trusted soul states it and the rest line up like little birdies ready to gobble up the regurgitated nastiness.

I'm not saying someone hasn't done it. Someone has marched backwards into a Halloween Party with a feather duster up their ass singing show tunes, but let's leave some people out of this, shall we?

Is tagaderm anything like Compeed?

I don't know.

Thanks for the list, Don. Much appreciated.

No problemo.

Don Rearic: real Dermabond huh? How much did that little guy run you?

That was free from a friendly EMT, from a rural area. I don't think they put them on ambulances up here because all of our hospitals are close.

I cannot get a discount on them, they are expensive and you have to watch the dates on them because the stuff gels up after a few years and it's no good.

Whoever had problems with steri-strips sticking - clean the (intact) skin surrounding the laceration to remove skin oils (soap and water preferably) then apply tincture of benzoin or skin prep (I've only used 3M's version), let than dry then put on the steri-strips. This will keep them on longer.

Yes they will. They use them on IV Starter Packs, the little vial.

 

[billym]

Nice kit.
Looks like you are missing materials to apply pressure and stop the bleeding; I would add some Gauze sponges etc. I guess you could improvise but I would rather have the real tools.

Quick Clot pads are pricey but work like magic.

In most cases closing the wound with staples or sutures is a bad idea; Steri-strips are better. Let a doctor play Betsy Ross.

 

[KEmSAT-Survival]

I'm not saying someone hasn't done it.

I'd just about be willing to bet somebody, somewhere has. If the situation is bad enough I'll sew myself up with a sharpened paperclip and piece of fishing line. But, I'd much rather have the real thing. If I have to choose between my fishing kit and my medi-kit, you can bet my fishing kit is staying home.
I can whittle fishing hooks and make cordage if I need to. I can also eat grasshoppers and weeds to get by if I'm stuck out that long. But you won't catch me taking chances on "well, I can use a fishhook for a needle if I need to...so I don't need a medi-kit." Metal rod with sharp point does not a suture needle make.

Of course, I'd also rather have a doctor or nurse sew me up...but shoulda, coulda, woulda...y'know?

 

[Don Rearic]

Nice kit.
Looks like you are missing materials to apply pressure and stop the bleeding; I would add some Gauze sponges etc. I guess you could improvise but I would rather have the real tools.

It's not so much that they are missing, it's that you are only going to get so much into a small ALOKSAK like that, you know? I always carry one or two Trau-Medic Dressings, the classic battlefield dressing, as well as one or two bandannas.

There is a whole lot of crap that is "missing" out of that kit! I'd put a lot more into it. There is no Asherman Chest Seal (ACS) and there is no decompression needle and other things for that, there is a whole lot of stuff that you might die if you don't have. You can't get everything in there.

As I said earlier, since I have the hemostatic agent from the ESEE Advanced SKIT, I would put that in there as well. The text and two pictures are 18 months old at this juncture... A little Jack Rebney for fans of same.

 

[Don Rearic]

In most cases closing the wound with staples or sutures is a bad idea; Steri-strips are better. Let a doctor play Betsy Ross.

I think closing wounds in the field without a second person that knows what they are doing and a syringe with some lidocaine is probably a bad idea. There are, however, some tough people that can take that pain and even more rare is the individual that can do it to him/herself.

Staples are a bit different. If you can get the area clean and keep it clean, PANG! PANG! PANG! PANG! It's over. Cover it up. There is something to be said for that.

 

[erichsen]

I posted this about a year and a half ago in the Wilderness/Survival Forum.

There seems to be a trend to guide people away from readily available and proper gear and point them in the direction of fish hooks for sutures.

Uh...yeah...well...don't do that.


Wound, Immediate Closure Kit - WICK

3M Steri-Strips, 2 Packs of 3 each, 1/4" X 3"

3M Steri-Strips, 1 Pack of 10 each, 1/4" X 4"

3M Steri-Strips, 1 Pack of 6 each, 1/2" X 4"

3M Tegaderm Patch, 2 Packs of 1 each, 2 3/8" X 2 3/4"

Dermabond Topical Skin Adhesive, 1 Tube, 0.5 ml

Kendall Vaseline Petrolatum Gauze, 2 Packs of 1 each, 3" X 9"

Fingertip Bandage, 2 Packs of 1 each, 1 3/4" X 2"

Elastic Strip "Band-Aid," 3 Packs of 1 each, 7/8" X 3"

Fabric Knuckle Bandage, 4 Packs of 1 each, 1 1/2" X 3"

Fabric Large Patch Bandage, 1 Pack of 1 each, 2" X 3"

Povidone-Iodine Prep Pad, 8 Packs of 1 each

Hydrocortisone Cream, 1 Packet, 1/32 Oz.

Triple Antibiotic Ointment, 2 Packets, 1/32 Oz.

Water-Jel Burn Jel, 2 Packets, 1/8 Oz.

ALOKSAK Bag, 4.5" X 7"









3M Steri-Strips work incredibly well. I just patched a ceramic tile cut on my Wife's finger last week and after just rinsing with water and scrubbing it with a Povidone Prep Pad and closing it with a Steri-Strip, it healed amazingly well. It was a real bleeder and after thoroughly rinsing in clean water, it simply would not stop bleeding. So, we scrubbed it with the Povidone and closed it immediately afterwards and put a dressing over it. It bled through immediately but she kept the dressing on for over 12 hours so it was not disturbed and had time to clot.

3M Tegaderm Dressings are also highly recommended. They provide an excellent barrier to contaminates and still breathe - they are incredibly more advanced for protecting wound sites compared to regular dressings.

If you want to downsize this already small kit, you could go with 2 3M Tegaderm Dressings, cut the Povidone-Iodine Prep Pads by half and go with the 3M Steri-Strips where you get 10 strips that are 1/4" X 4" each.

Assorted knuckle and fingertip bandages along with regular types of "Band-Aid" bandages can patch up a lot of stuff and keep it clean.

There are three basic reasons to suture a wound:

1. To stop bleeding.
2. To keep the wound from becoming larger by movement.
3. Cosmetic reasons, less scarring, etc.

This kit offers a real and very effective alternative to suturing yourself. It's also an intelligent alternative to the suggestions of using any form of tape to close wounds which is begging for an infection that you do not need during a critical time. I don't want an infected cut in the best of times but when you have to be your own medic out in the woods, you definitely do not want to follow the advice of people too cheap or ignorant to spend about $10.00 on Steri-Strips, Povidone Prep Pads and some good bandages, etc.

The Water-Jel Burn Jel is included because anyone can get a nasty burn when handling various cooking cups, pots, utensils, etc. It works very well, kills pain quickly.

If you want to expand the kit, making it about 25% larger, you could include a small bottle of Systane, which is an eye-wash and lubricant, a small 5 Gram Tube of Lidocaine, three packs of Ethicon or other sutures with cutting needles, a tube of antibiotic eye ointment and perhaps a small tube of Oragel which is a benzocaine-based pain killer.

The steri-strips are a great addition, they have proven to be very useful and I've used them on myself and my youngest son when the need arose.

I would encourage you to include a proper hemostatic blood coagulant, the best known of which is Celox and comes in several varieties, I have the the more common Celox D as well as Celox A which comes with a syringe for deep puncture wounds that need more drastic measures.

The number of dressesings you list and the size of those dressings should really be increased. A wound dressing must be changed regularly and thus the topical antibiotics in your checklist should also be increased. Only very minor wounds can get away with a handful of oversized band-aids.

Better to be over-prepared (the steri-strips are certainly more appropriate for deeper wounds, thus the suggestion of the other items) and more than a few sizes of curved needles and a few pairs of sterilized and sealed surgical instruments (the locking grip hemostatic forceps, featuring a "needle-nose" profile, with at least one having a straight nose and the other a 60 degree canted nose, useful in getting into and around wounds where stitching is needed) some snips with a long handle for more control to clean up a ragged wound and at least a half dozen large some syringes (10-12 cc) to THOROUGHLY irrigate the wound of any foreign materials are essential to avoiding potentially life threatening infection prior to sewing up a bad wound or using the steri-strips if the depth does not merit suture.

Similarly, all the exposure to direct flames for food, cooking items and the usual wear and tear of sleep deprivation, reduction in caloric intake and the aches and pains of sleeping on twigs can cause people to do stupid things that get them burned (speaking from experience). More burn care and minor burn relief is prudent. At least two cold packs and the associated burn cremes, plus the usual antibiotic and dressing precautions should be taken. Burns are an often more serious risk of infection because they tend to be over a larger area than lacerations or a puncture.

Good luck, stay safe.

-E

 

[Don Rearic]

I would encourage you to include a proper hemostatic blood coagulant, the best known of which is Celox and comes in several varieties, I have the the more common Celox D as well as Celox A which comes with a syringe for deep puncture wounds that need more drastic measures.

I know, I covered that.

I think part of the problem is, and I am also guilty of this at times, is that sometimes the first couple/few posts are read and the rest are glossed over or ignored completely.

The number of dressesings you list and the size of those dressings should really be increased. A wound dressing must be changed regularly and thus the topical antibiotics in your checklist should also be increased. Only very minor wounds can get away with a handful of oversized band-aids.

-E

Dude, this is a pocket kit. I guess it is my fault I did not focus on that.

I have an M5 Medic Bag chock full of stuff and that generally goes into the pack I am packing, etc. It doesn't fit very well into a pocket, however.

[BREAK]

Another good thing about the hemostatic agent in the ESEE Advanced Kit as well as the 3m Steri-Strips and TegaDerm Dressings is that you can get a bit of real first aid kit into something like the classic British Tobacco Tin - sized survival kits.

[BREAK AGAIN]

In the past, stuff like Moleskin (Dr. Scholl's, etc.) was one of the things that if you didn't put into a kit, you just didn't know what you were doing and you were critiqued up the hole for. You cannot have everything. If you have everything, you end up with a suitcase full of stuff that you leave at home or in the hotel, etc.

 

[333rm]

It always cracks me up Don when no matter how much you manage to sqeeze into a kit someone always thinks there's a crap load more room in there for everything else...

 

[Don Rearic]

Well, in all fairness, I do have an ALOKSAK that you might be able to squeeze the classic M5 Medic Bag into.

 

[styx]

Don, I hope you don't mind but I'll have to forward this to a few ppl that are near me way too often. Especially since I'm the one that needs to be patched together

 

[Don Rearic]

Don, I hope you don't mind but I'll have to forward this to a few ppl that are near me way too often. Especially since I'm the one that needs to be patched together

:::snicker:::

 

[dogboye]

Everything I can find on the compeed now (google) has it just as blister healing/protecting. But I have used it like I mentioned before, and it worked remarkably well. I guess maybe I just got lucky. I mean, it's not going to save you if you have cut the end of your finger off. But if you have a chunk of skin missing and are bleeding like a stuck pig... well, it worked for me.

But seems too specialized for the kit you have here.

 

[Don Rearic]

Blister protection isn't too specialized for a kit like this at all. As long as it is not too long, wide or thick. If it is like a Moleskin package, it would fit and should be in there as well. If you have to move and you have a busted drumstick, you won't be going very far.

 

[dogboye]

Yeah, I guess that's a good point.
Plus, I've already proven to myself that it can do good duty sealing a wound. I know I always like to have some of it around.

 

[DH1]

I've got a similar kit that's come in handy one or twice. There's not much talk about medical topics on the boards I frequent, but it's waaaay more important than SHOULD I GET A SAWBACK KNIFE OR NO?!? threads. I carry a larger zippered bag of medical supplies in my EDC pack, and a small AloxSak of supplies that can fit in a pocket or jacket. That AloxSak along with my Altoids tin of the basic survival gear boil down my 11 pound pack contents to a few ounces, and both can be pocketed and the pack left behind.

I'll add to the pile on of stuff and reccomend a pair of latex gloves. Not a dealbreaker if they won't fit, but in certain situations they could be very valuable.

 

[2Edgy4u]

3M Steri-Strips and TegaDerm Dressings are a bit stickier than 3M Band-Aids, have you tried them?

Hey Don. Yes I have. The tagaderm dressings are Very good!. The ones I used were about 4x3in. and with an adheasive edge. Clear in the center so you can see whats under the dressing if one needed to. Great product. Oh I was one that mentioned "fishhooks for sutures" *Thats ONLY for when there is NO other possible option.* I don't recomend it, but sometimes you are only given one option in an total alone bad spot. I know of it done more than a few times. Needle and thread many times more. I worked as an EMT for 4 years, and have seen alot of the most strange fixes one could think of. But yeah A+ for Tagaderm. Nice kit BTY. enjoy edgy :thumbup:

 

[KarlMaldensNose]

Triple Antibiotic Ointment, 2 Packets, 1/32 Oz.

This stuff is miraculous. I'm convinced it would stave off infection if a bear bit off your arm then pissed on the wound. I damn near lopped my index finger off while chopping wood on a trip last week... on the first day. With regular cleaning, dressing changes and triple action antibiotic ointment applications, I avoided any aparant infection, even kept it free of swelling and redness. And any of you who spend time camping, fishing, cooking, etc. in the bush knows how filthy your hands can get.