WOW Draw filing!!!!!!

Sam Salvati

Sam Salvati

Joined
Aug 6, 2007
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WOW draw filing is great!!!!! I have been using a file SO SO wrong all these years! I always had thought filing was a slow and tedious boring process, but it turns out only because i was not doing ir properly. Draw filing is where you hold the file perpendicular to the work (in this case of course a blade) and just stroke back and forth as you would like a draw knife except you cut on the push stroke. It moves material VERY fast (must be careful!:eek:), and very precise as well. I was working on the cutlass/yataghan/yatlass on the grinder and was like "ok, here we go, breath, please don't make this another blade to the scrap pile sacrificed to the gods of learning" and was grinding slack belt near the tip where it is a diamond cross section and lost concentration a bit and rounded the nice sharp ridge line RIGHT over. I went back and forth and got it to crisp up again but not nearly as good as it was. I had never given a real chance to draw filing to see just how well it worked but thought it might be able to save this blade and went to work. WOW brought that ridge right back right quick. It worked so well I figured I try it out on the rest of the blade and just went at it, it was even fun! If you haven't tried it yet, or are not to confident on the grinder (or don't even have one) give it a try it'sa great technique, really gives you a feel as well for angles and such.

Draw filing FTW:p:thumbup:.
 
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Hey Sam-


It's kind of therapeutic! I definitely love my Burr King and KMG... :D But having your hands wrapped around a GOOD QUALITY FILE while draw filing some steel that is VERY FIRMLY clamped down... is good for the soul.

I'm not a real "spiritual person" in the way of saying that it makes you one with the steel or some such horse-$hit like that, but it does give a great appreciation for doing true hand-work.

It really helps to have a super solid work-bench with a high quality vise.

I prefer Simmonds and Nicholson files.

It's surprising how much stock you can remove with a good, 14" file.

Great post Sam :)
 
I built a NWGS and I really like it but it's in my way-too-small shed and down about three layers, so I've been doing a lot of file work. Mike Krall suggested lathe files (THANKS MIKE!) so I got a Nicholson 12" and it's the best thing since sliced bread. I don't draw file with anything else. It cuts really fast and leaves a nicer finish. I even think it doesn't gall as bad but you do still have to clean it every so often.
 
Forgot something-

Another tip I picked up from a wood-working magazine of all places (the article was about making your own steel scribe) is to keep a big chunk of chalk (I got some 1-1/8" diameter sidewalk chalk) and run the file over that first. It keeps the need to use a file card down quite a bit.
 
Nick, I am right there with you on that, very therapuetic. For me it's akin to sweeping, for some reason I can do it all day and just feel calm as a hindu cow. Draw filing is quick working enough to keep you occupied, so you don't get an ADD attack but slow enough so you can relax while doing it. I give my big file a light tap-tap on the metal anvil/filing stand I use to keep it clean.
 
Sam

Sounds like you are rediscovering most of your life. COOL. I do A LOT of draw filling. That was one thing I learned from the very beginning and it is a very important part of my process. It is very therapeutic for me. You can keep a focus on what you are doing but can have occasional laps and not loose the whole enchilada. SO first parks and now draw filing. Just keep having fun.
 
My only beef with drawfiling is that occasionally I get too comfortable doing it, and bump the file up over my nice clean plunge, putting a series of deep gouges into it (I hadn't measured, but I think those gouges were somehow 2 inches deep) . :mad: ..I did find it cut down on that problem to round the leading edge of the file on the grinder.
 
I could have told you that Sam ! I could have shown you too. Trick is to keep it clean.The chalk helps along with frequent use of a file card !
 
A C Richards said:
Sam

Sounds like you are rediscovering most of your life. COOL. I do A LOT of draw filling. That was one thing I learned from the very beginning and it is a very important part of my process. It is very therapeutic for me. You can keep a focus on what you are doing but can have occasional laps and not loose the whole enchilada. SO first parks and now draw filing. Just keep having fun.
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Chuck, you are 100% right. The past few months have been a reawakening of sorts, for awhile I was stuck in a sort of detrimental tunnel of secrets. But now I am back on my own, lessons learned, and have left the dark tunnel of secrets and gotten back to searching out the facts, and questioning things, again. Thanks to you guys and many others on different fora, I am learning so much (THANKS!)! And *whispers* it's never been funner :D :thumbup: .

Robert, I tried the chalk thing when I read it and came in for a drink, it works great! I need a file card, does a regular wire brush work ok?
 
The card works a lot better. It takes less brush strokes to clean (handy when you have a lot of filing to do)
 
Blue_Dragon said:
My only beef with drawfiling is that occasionally I get too comfortable doing it, and bump the file up over my nice clean plunge, putting a series of deep gouges into it .
Click to expand...

If you are bumping the file into your plunge line, you're going the wrong direction.
It's called "draw filing" because you are DRAWING the file towards you.
Keep the file tang in your left hand and pull towards yourself.
Don't get caught up in going both directions.

Here's a little tip from Terry Primos:

I do plenty of draw filing on larger knives. The blade is clamped down in front of me with the tip pointing toward me, and I pull (draw) the file toward myself from the ricasso shoulders to the tip.


Things To Remember
Don't be tempted to scrub back and forth. You will ruin the file and it won't help your work at all.
Keep the teeth of the file clean. Little chips of the steel can get embedded in the teeth and will gall the piece. Galling means that it will score a deep scratch in your nice smooth piece. You can use a file card or a small stiff wire brush to clean out the teeth. I usually just whack the file on the workbench every couple of strokes. Of course I also check to see that it's clean before making another stroke.
Don't work just one area. If you have a scratch in a low spot you can't just work that area to get the scratch out. All you'll do is create a divot. The entire surface from ricasso shoulders to tip has to be brought down. When you are dealing with a low spot, an easy way to check your progress is to paint over the low spot with a Magic Marker. As the rest of the blade is brought down you will begin to "erase" the area that you've colored in.
Be patient. Draw filing is not as bad as some folks think, but it's certainly not like using a grinder with a 60 grit belt. It takes time and patience. The results are rewarding when you've done the job properly.


And:

The blade must have support. Because of the distal taper of the blade, the tip will be suspended in air. So will part of the center of the blade. So you have the problem of the middle of the blade bowing and the tip bending as you draw the file across the blade. The bow will cause you to dish out the center, and the tip will bend causing you to round it off.



This is not a knife, but there are just a few little tips here that might help:
1.) direction
2.) chalk
3.) moving the file over

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw&feature=related
 
Here is a shot of my little filing setup, that is a farrier's anvil stand with a spring loaded filing vice. If you have not seen or used one of these vices, they are a VERY useful tool that is not utilised as much as it could be in other smithing aspects of smithing than horse shoes. That stand ROCKS. Hammer holders, tong rack, tool tray with a small parts cup, the anvil is clamped to the actual stand or you can clamp other tools in there (like a drill press), the spring vice, and it EVEN folds up for easy transport. If you think that little spring vice doesn't hold things tight enough, stick your finger in one :) .

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Another good tip for cleaning file teeth my old trade school teacher told me is to use a thin (1/8') piece of aluminium (aluminum?) and scrape the file with the edge, going across the file. it really digs the chips of steel out well.

Sam, dont know how calm a hindu cow would be in peak hour traffic in bombay:D:D:D:thumbup:
 
A scribe does better than a piece of aluminum for stubborn particles.
 
Sam, you are holding the file backward ( unless you need to push). Turn it around and pull (draw)- it is easier. Also try to figure a way to support the blade more. It will work the way you are doing it with a thick blade, but with anything that has flex, it may cause some problems.
Stacy

BTW, wrapping a washcloth around the end will make it easier on the hand.
 
I took a class with Don Fogg on sword making. He is a real nut, read enthusiastic when it comes to filing. The thing he kept telling me was to lighten up on the pressure. I guess it's natural to want to apply pressure to make the filing go faster but it's counterproductive. Keep the pressure light and buy the best files you can find.
Just what I think,
Lynn
 
Great thread,

I have been doing alot of filing lately , I when and picked up a Nichols Magic-Cut file the other day and WOW,

I would recomend them for anyone doing alot of filing, thing is like a 36 grit ceramic belt, it has probly cut my file time in half.

well worth the extra cost,




cya
jimi
 
Magic-Cut is very nice !
I could never get comfortable with pulling the file ,I always push .Which ever suits you.
Files do wear out ,then you can make a knife from it !
 
Sam, I'm really enjoying your thread, lots of good tips! By the way, you're going to poke an eye out when y ou drop something, or slice a bit of scalp off, the way you have your blade set up. You need to get another piece of steel, about the same width as the knife blade, and when you clamp the blade, clamp this piece of steel under the blade, all the way to the tip!!! This will keep the blade from stabbing you (and it happens, some of the guys here on this forum already know!), plus you can put some pieces of wood or whatever between the blade and the steel under the blade, which will help stabilize the blade so it won't flex up and down.
The piece of steel must extend out further than the tip, remember that!!
Ok, continue with the fun part! It's a really satisfying procedure.
 
Sam, while I dig your set-up there, I agree with Stacy on the support aspect.

My hand-sanding and draw filing set-up is just a couple different pieces of angle iron (1.5" X 1.5" X 1/4") that I can put in the bench vise and clamp the blade to.

Without support under the entire length of the blade, there is a whole lot of flex that is really hard to deal with.

But then again, do what feels right to you and gets the end result you're after :)
 
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