WOW I can't wait for this

I second Bladite on his comments. Lets make it constructive, AND ABOUT THE TOPIC BEING DISCUSSED, NOT THE PEOPLE, please.

I've done alot of hard work with stick tangs, with the leader of the pack being a 1217 USMC Fighting/Utility Knife. After years, repeat, years of batonning, carving, chopping, and basically beating them for everything I needed them to do, they broke. I got my money's worth everytime.

I will have to say, on a blade that big, logically it would seem to be a stress point at the tang transition. On the 7" knife, I know it is. All 3 Kabar 1217's I've broken, all broke there and in the same manner. All of them broke while being beat through wood with another piece of wood, and they were all well used when they let go.

I look forward to getting on, as its a Kabar, its American, and ITS A BIG ASS KNIFE.

I like knives.

Thanks for all the comments guys.

Moose
 
This is my professional opinion. It doesn't mean it's fact.
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C Tanner,
Your "professional" friend is correct. It is his opinion.
The late great Senator from NY; Daniel Moynihan used to say:" You can have your own opinion but you can't have your own facts."

Here are some facts:
1) Since 1942 KA-BAR has made approx 5 MILLION F/U knives and it's variations.
In WWII they produced over 1 million F/U knives alone. These are just KA-BAR Figures There were/are eight other manufacturers of F/U knives to date. I can't offer any figures for all of them but I worked at 3 of the companies.
Breakage at the blade/tang junction is not any higher of a defect than blade beakage, or tip breakage, or pommel/tang breakage (our largest return defects.) All of these defects are still very low. (under 1% of total return defects) To be fair not everyone returns their broken knives.

2) Narrow tangs are old (1900s) technology. Full Tangs offer certain advantages but there are dis-advantages to them also. The companies knew of the dis advantages of narrow tangs and designed them accordingly. If your professional friend would care to dis assemble, examine and test our blades and also look at the F/U government specs he would see this. There are still many narrow tang knives being made today, ColdSteel SRK,MH,TrailMas; Ontario Spec-Plus, FF, Bag Bowie; KA-BAR; SOG; Buck; Case.

3) Heat treatment of blades is NOT like anything your friend opins. Not even close.

Sorry for the rant: But as a professional, I have to deal with facts and data. That is the best way to produce any product.


Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
TwinStick said:
Sorry, IMO, unless they have a full width tang, they are JUNK. A stick tang is not worthy of any HD use.
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It's all in the heat treat. I took a Randall, model one, to RVN. One day, I stopped, and leaned against the front fender of a deuce, and a half. While taking a drink from my canteen, I heard a 'snapping sound'. I reached down, and unsnapped the sheath, and the handle, with the cross guard still attached, came off in my hand, while the blade stayed in the sheath. It wasn't diferentially heat treated to leave any 'give' in the stick tang, which was only 1/4" wide, and not tapered. It broke off from being too brittle. Since then, I never buy a knife without a full tang, because you never know how it is heat treated.

EarlFH
 
EarlFH,

Correct. If you look at the F/U spec, it calls for differential heat treating. Hard at the blade, spring temper on the blade/tang junction and soft on the tang end. That's how KA-BAR does it. I can't vouch for all manufacturers.
Sorry about your Randall. I bet you that the Randall gang would fix that for you.
Full tang knives are strong at the junction. No dispute here. That does not make narrow tang knives bad. We have plenty of customer returns on broken full tang knives at KA-BAR. We even had a BK-2 returned that had broken at the shoulder/guard area.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
Toooj, one of your posts is generally worth a 100 in the 'bush' of opinion.
 
Toooj said:
EarlFH,

Correct. If you look at the F/U spec, it calls for differential heat treating. Hard at the blade, spring temper on the blade/tang junction and soft on the tang end. That's how KA-BAR does it. I can't vouch for all manufacturers.
Sorry about your Randall. I bet you that the Randall gang would fix that for you.
Full tang knives are strong at the junction. No dispute here. That does not make narrow tang knives bad. We have plenty of customer returns on broken full tang knives at KA-BAR. We even had a BK-2 returned that had broken at the shoulder/guard area.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
Click to expand...

Wow!!! I can't imagine what kind of abuse it would take to break my BK-2 like that. I'll bet he worked up a sweat doing it.
You're right about the Marine Corps. issue knives. I've seen guys spend hours throwing them into trees without breaking more than the tip, and then grind it sharp, and do it some more.

EarlFH
 
EarlFH,

The BK-2 in question was being thrown. Is this abuse?....we replaced it anyway.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
Toooj said:
Sorry for the rant: But as a professional, I have to deal with facts and data. That is the best way to produce any product.
Click to expand...

No problem. After all, I didn't say it, I'm just passing on an opinion. I dont make knives. I'm the one that showed it because I thought it looked cool and I like Kabar.

That being said, I think it is fair for others to doubt when you have such a large visible blade to handle ratio. Usually when you see blades that big its more like a BK9 or something. People expect a lot of chopping and hard use with a big blade. I personally wouldn't worry about it on the regular sized Kabars. This one DOES stand out though, and so everyone has their right to their pre-release opinions based on what they see, and Kabar has the right to prove them wrong. I dont think anyone is attacking Kabar as a company, but I understand the reaction working there.

Oh, I also noticed in the catalog that the Zombie Knive and the Adventure knives have the same handle...so I am tempted now to get a Potbelly knowing I can aquire a black handle for it.

I dont remember what the catalog said...is it intended as a hard use knife like a BK9, or just a overly large combat knife?

I'll personally be interested in the inevitable YouTube hard use tests. I hope it does better than Gerber did with that Bear Grylls trainwreck of an "Ultimate" knife.


EDIT TO ADD: Another way of looking at it would be: Instead of getting upset about it, take it as a look into what SOME people who might be potential customers are thinking about when they see your product that you are about to release. Any concern a customer has is a legitimate concern. Because it might be the deciding factor in whether or not they pull the trigger and buy the knife. What people think is VALUABLE information for a company to have.If one person speaks up about something online, there are at least a hundred that think the same thing that dont.

Remember I am not an internet troll for passing on that opinion, I am a guy who the last 3 knives I purchased were ALL made by Kabar...and they wont be the last either!
 
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C Tanner,

No Problem. If I sound defensive I apologize. My post was not intended to start a P!$$!^9 contest.
The problem with opinion (especially on the net) is that opinion becomes perception, perception becomes reality. Any lack of challange seems to substanciate that reality.
Statements and opinions must all withstand the "market place of ideas" scrutiny.
Some pretty strong opinions were expressed and they were challenged. That is all.
No Ad Hominem attacks. Nothing personal.
Untimately we are all here because we like knives. That is what is most important.
We can all agree to disagree, without being disagreeable. My hope was just to shed a different perspective.
Thanks for your support of KA-BAR and Becker.


Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
well said Toooj :)

besides, i'd hate to have to infract you :) ;) (never happen)

yay ! knives !
 
I like knives.

I like Toooj.

I like Kabar.

I like BKT.

I like knives.

Moose
 
Now that we are all friends again, When are the Mark I's coming out??? :D :confused:
 
wildmanh,

Good question. We are diligently waiting for our factory. Best ETA for Big Brother and Mark I around March.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
Toooj said:
EarlFH,

The BK-2 in question was being thrown. Is this abuse?....we replaced it anyway.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
Click to expand...

Yeh. Unfortunately There are people in this world, who can destroy a steel ball, with a rubber hammer.

EarlFH
 
Unfortunately There are people in this world, who can destroy a steel ball, with a rubber hammer.
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LOL. Long ago I was naive enough to think I could design and produce something fool proof but I was wrong.

BTW, EarlFH; Thanks for your service. That war was a tough one. Even worse when you lose a Randall Mod 1. What happened to the knife?

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
/
Toooj said:
LOL. Long ago I was naive enough to think I could design and produce something fool proof but I was wrong.

BTW, EarlFH; Thanks for your service. That war was a tough one. Even worse when you lose a Randall Mod 1. What happened to the knife?

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
Click to expand...

Toooj,
Thanks. I was so disappointed in the knife, that I gave the parts to another fellow who wanted it. He shipped it home, and I never heard what became of it, after that. I eventually picked up an issue USMC F/U knife(not a Kabar. I don't think I ever saw an issue Kabar brand F/U over there).

EarlFH
 
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