wrapped micarta idea: directly to tang or not?

S

Sharphur

Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Messages
18
I had this idea for a handle on a blade I bought recently. I want to take a cloth material like silk, cotton, or rayon, then wrap it tightly while soaked with epoxy. It would wrap around the handle much the same way cloth tape wraps around a tennis racket or a boxers hands. The wrapping tightens the whole thing a little and looks interesting. I was also thinking of using mineral dust powders as dyes, adding little bits as I go of different colors.

Will this be solid enough? The epoxy is the same sort people use for homemade micarta.

Can I wrap this directly to the knife tang or should I wrap it onto a blank tang and then pull it off and put it on the real knife later after the epoxy hardens?

I have some experience doing this actually. *The 4 piece set of carver knives from TKS I ordered for fun and utility. One got a regular handle but the rest I experimented on. *I used the canvas from a free shopping bag soaked through with epoxy but not much excess, rubbed clear before wrapping. *It was simply wrapped into place and I used painters tape to hold it all together. *later I cut away the painters tape and *sanded the rough spots. It's ugly, but hard as hell and my best handle of those carvers.

Last crazy touch: I have in mind to gather lots of spider silk, gossamer, and use that in place of the fabric. If I can get clean gossamer, then it would make for an epic handle material. I am sure I can gather enough gossamer, but it'll be a learning experience working with it. I was thinking of making it into a sort of yarn and wrapping almost cord-like, or going for a gauze look by wrapping spread out ribbon like.
 
Can it be done? probably. Will you make a huge mess with the epoxy? probably. Will it look like crap when you're done? probably. Good luck with the spider silk.
 
well, I was hoping for more discussion about wrapping homemade micarta. Does it create air pockets? Are those air pockets weaknesses in the handle? Does it attract stains like cloth normally would or does the epoxy help prevent that?

I believe it is worthwhile to attempt the wrapped homemade micarta made out of gossamer. Why one poster claims to know ahead that it's going to look ugly I don't know, because they didn't bother sharing why they thought that way nor did they share a single anecdote.

Is this forum populated with knife makers or trolls? I don't participate here often because of exactly this sort of forum-experience. Or maybe everyone is here to steal everyone else's ideas and keep new makers down by forcing them to

1: admit they don't have a forge or grinder so their blades are store-bought and thus not "made" but "built" (you're not building a knife, you're making it, get it straight newbie)

2: force them to clarify terms it's obvious they aren't clear on, nevermind that you knew exactly what they meant.

3: share the fact that you are experienced, but never share details or lessons of that experience, just make sure everyone knows you're Tops

In all seriousness, is this a forum for the discussion of knife making, or is it a forum for professional knifemakers to take shits on the new knife makers? I have consistently experienced the latter here on this forum, with bits of helpfulness randomly interspersed apparently by accident or guilt at having just harangued a new knife maker again, both from new members of low post count, AND from long time thousand-plus posting members.

I derailed my own thread completely I know, but why exactly should I care enough to return to this thread let alone this forum?
 
I am just about to do my first mycarta wrapped handle out of crimson and cream linnen (customer request). As has been stated, there is a youtube video showing it being done. As for voids, as long as you get it very tight there shouldn't be too many. I plan to wrap it directly to the tang. I see no reason to possibly mess it up by using a sacrificial tang and transfering the handle to your knife. Put it on your knife to start with. A perfectly tight fit is one reason why to do a wrapped handle in the first place.
Jason
 
Sharphur said:
well, I was hoping for more discussion about wrapping homemade micarta. Does it create air pockets? Are those air pockets weaknesses in the handle? Does it attract stains like cloth normally would or does the epoxy help prevent that?

I believe it is worthwhile to attempt the wrapped homemade micarta made out of gossamer. Why one poster claims to know ahead that it's going to look ugly I don't know, because they didn't bother sharing why they thought that way nor did they share a single anecdote.

Is this forum populated with knife makers or trolls? I don't participate here often because of exactly this sort of forum-experience. Or maybe everyone is here to steal everyone else's ideas and keep new makers down by forcing them to

1: admit they don't have a forge or grinder so their blades are store-bought and thus not "made" but "built" (you're not building a knife, you're making it, get it straight newbie)

2: force them to clarify terms it's obvious they aren't clear on, nevermind that you knew exactly what they meant.

3: share the fact that you are experienced, but never share details or lessons of that experience, just make sure everyone knows you're Tops

In all seriousness, is this a forum for the discussion of knife making, or is it a forum for professional knifemakers to take shits on the new knife makers? I have consistently experienced the latter here on this forum, with bits of helpfulness randomly interspersed apparently by accident or guilt at having just harangued a new knife maker again, both from new members of low post count, AND from long time thousand-plus posting members.

I derailed my own thread completely I know, but why exactly should I care enough to return to this thread let alone this forum?
Click to expand...

Relax, dude... acting like that is just going to get you banned. It sucks that your experience has been like that, but I'm glad to say mine has been the exact opposite. Everyone has been plenty helpful, and every single maker I see is incredibly humble and complimentary of one another.

Maybe people would be nicer if you didn't snap at them for sharing their opinions...
 
The process you're describing will work, but it's going to be messy. That's why it's suggested that you work on a sacrificial tang.

I've done this exactly once for a chisel handle and it came out great. It would have been better had I taken the time to really finish the blob, but it certainly was finished to a degree that was comfortable in the palm of my hand.

What I would recommend is use multicolored cloth like a plaid or paisley. As you wind it up, the various changes in hue will add a rather interesting pattern. The key is to roll or twist the material as you turn it around the tang so you don't get a defined pattern showing through in the end product. Of course, adding colored pigments is another method I hadn't thought of. That could be very neat if you stick with a white or off-white fabric for the background.

I would also note that you only really need the inside layer (against the tang) and the outside layer to be thoroughly saturated with epoxy. The middle layer will never see the light of day even with sanding and filing to shape, so it doesn't really hurt if you don't get it wetted completely through.

Overall, it's basically the same thing that you see people doing with twine-wrapped handles on their blades. The epoxy is built up as the twine is wrapped around because the epoxy can't completely penetrate through the twine to reach the tang otherwise. Often, the twine is wrapped over a leather or wood core that gives the handle some bulk or a more comfortable shape because the twine isn't going to be sanded or contoured.

This is the best solution, in my opinion, because using a wooden core will eliminate the need for a large chunk of cloth and/or epoxy. You get the benefit of a wrapped handle without burning through a lot of supplies. Even cheap pine or poplar works for the core material, and it's easy to carve the mortise for the tang.....
 
Have a look at this

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/915466-Virtual-BBQ-WIP-Carbon-Fiber-Take-down


Spider silk?
I have real doubts.
First, how much can you really collect?
Second, it's a protein, how are you going to keep it from rotting?
It seems like a World of Warcraft - video game fantasy to me.
Go ahead and try it - prove me wrong

Of course it's a mess, it's a sticky, shmeary gluey mess.




Regarding this:
I have learned more here than from any other source and have found makers very generous with their knowledge.

If you have specific questions and expectations of having them answered, then you have to ask those specific questions.

Sharphur said:
well, I was hoping for more discussion about wrapping homemade micarta. Does it create air pockets? Are those air pockets weaknesses in the handle? Does it attract stains like cloth normally would or does the epoxy help prevent that?

I believe it is worthwhile to attempt the wrapped homemade micarta made out of gossamer. Why one poster claims to know ahead that it's going to look ugly I don't know, because they didn't bother sharing why they thought that way nor did they share a single anecdote.

Is this forum populated with knife makers or trolls? I don't participate here often because of exactly this sort of forum-experience. Or maybe everyone is here to steal everyone else's ideas and keep new makers down by forcing them to

1: admit they don't have a forge or grinder so their blades are store-bought and thus not "made" but "built" (you're not building a knife, you're making it, get it straight newbie)

2: force them to clarify terms it's obvious they aren't clear on, nevermind that you knew exactly what they meant.

3: share the fact that you are experienced, but never share details or lessons of that experience, just make sure everyone knows you're Tops

In all seriousness, is this a forum for the discussion of knife making, or is it a forum for professional knifemakers to take shits on the new knife makers? I have consistently experienced the latter here on this forum, with bits of helpfulness randomly interspersed apparently by accident or guilt at having just harangued a new knife maker again, both from new members of low post count, AND from long time thousand-plus posting members.

I derailed my own thread completely I know, but why exactly should I care enough to return to this thread let alone this forum?
Click to expand...
 
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I thought there was a time about 10 or 15 years ago when I would see a lot of Japanese-style blades wraped with some form of fabric and then coated with epoxy or whatever. The end result had a coarse texture that appeared like it would really enhance the grip.
 
I apologize if my response to your OP was a bit abrupt. Many people here ARE willing to share information with those willing to learn.

If you are willing to learn how to assemble a knife, and eventually possibly even make a knife (yes, there IS a difference), then my recommendation would be to gain some experience with conventional handle construction before experimenting with what is most certainly an unconventional approach to constructing a handle.

If you want serious discussion, and most decidedly serious input and responses to your questions or requests, then the rest of the community here also has to assume that you are serious as well.

I am afraid I cannot take an epoxy-soaked spider-silk wrapped handle that has been sprinkled with colored powder seriously. And therein lies the problem for many of the knifemakers here that take their time away from making knives to address questions like yours. Are you serious? Or are you someone who has just stumbled in off the street looking for some attention?

If you are dissatisfied with the quality or quantity of input that you receive here, instead of whining about it, why don't you go and find out for yourself whether your idea is practical, or not, and let us know what you find. Show us pictures of your handle after you have assembled it, and then get a critique. For an average-sized handle that is about 4.5 inches long, 7/8 inches high, and 3/4 inch wide, how many yards of spider silk do you need, anyway? I doubt that anyone here can tell you. How many spiders will you need to produce that quantity? How will spider silk hold up to being soaked in epoxy?

If you want to soak some cloth in epoxy, wrap it around a tang, and call it a handle, then why don't you let us know how your experiment works? Of course you might have air gaps. Will they cause the handle to fail? Go use the knife and find out.

Will it acheive a better handle fit than what you have been able to acheive in your other efforts (based on some of your other posts on BF)? Maybe, but it sounds to me like you're trying to find a shortcut.
 
Here is a theory and stop me if you've heard this one before.

1. Ask what people think and for advice about your idea.

2. Accept that the advice is sound because their experience>yours or proceed to 3.

3. Try it yourself and see how well it works.

You'll see I didn't include getting defensive or aggressive towards the forum and people you asked for advice when they didn't respond as you expected. Sound advice from another newbie knife maker.
 
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