W's Pattern Damascus

[JMJones]

I have viewed a couple of Wip's from Bruce Bump, Jerry Fisk, ect about making the w's pattern but I just cant seem to wrap my mind around what produces the W's. Any one have any other links or insight as to how to produce this pattern.

Thanks

John

 

[Dan Seaver]

Pretty much you take a standard billet, flip it 90 degrees and forge it out. Then stack and weld like a normal billet just with a 90 degree difference. The W's are formed because when you forge the billet out, the outside of the billet moves differently than the inside causing the layers to form a v shape, when stacked and welded these V's turn into the W's.

 

[indian george]

When you come down here we will have to do it up.:thumbup: It will be a learning curve for both of us.

 

[deker]

I just recently did a writeup on W's on my website. The pictures aren't there yet because I still have to make another W's billet and get the photos. I think I explain it pretty well though. I'm hoping to get some W's made in the next few weeks, so check back for the updated page.

-d

 

[A C Richards]

There is a shear that occurs when the billet is reduced along the edge. It takes a few re-stacks to get the W's to show. Until then it kind of looks like a big mistake. Usually around the 32 stack layer area is were the patterns really starts to develop.

 

[JMJones]

Thanks for the info. IG, I know I need to make it down there soon.


John

 

[A C Richards]

I have a few pieces of a recent billet that might help you understand.

First weld. The layers have just kind of smushed and the pattern is still pretty straight.

Second weld after a cut restack. The w's are beginning to shear and display the look we are after.

Finally it is beginning to look like a w pattern. This is after 2 more 5 stack welds.

Now you can further manipulate or forge out a blade from here. Does this help any?? I just hope the photos come through. I am trying a new system.

 

[A C Richards]

Here are a few more,
First a w-pattern blade with larger W's.

Next a blade that the W's did not quite develop all the way but it still looked great.

Then of you take it one step further you can go to the feather pattern.

 

[deloid]

Chuck that knife with the feather pattern hits me hard! That is a beaut!!!
It has a soft touch of pattern and just the right look for a vintage-like knife.
Brilliant!
Also....How did you keep that subtle patten while forging the knife shape and edge?

 

[A C Richards]

Thanks for the kind words. The feather pattern is actually the blade blank before grinding. I did a light etch just to see what the pattern would look like. A feather pattern actually needs a little shaping to get it to look right. I do not however forge the bevels but grind them in. This knife when finished had a brighter pattern than what you see here. To keep the lighter vintage look as you call it, just etch it lightly and leave it at that.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

And if you have some left over, make a guard out of it!

 

[deloid]

Sigh...
The skill that is demonstrated on this forum can be a little ego deflating for a "primitive" style maker. Now I have the LG 25 but it's not big enough to make damascus (my arms aren't big enough either).

I guess I'll have to round up some folks to try and make some wootz

 

[deker]

Sigh...
The skill that is demonstrated on this forum can be a little ego deflating for a "primitive" style maker. Now I have the LG 25 but it's not big enough to make damascus (my arms aren't big enough either).

I guess I'll have to round up some folks to try and make some wootz

You're likely to have an easier time making small billets of damascus on a 25# Lg than working wootz cakes....Wootz is evil hard to forge down, especially since you have to work at such low heats. I started my damascus making with a 30# Kerrihard hammer. It was a good bit of work, but it's doable. Give it a shot, it's easier than you think....and more addictive...then you'll buy bigger tools, and you won't have this problem any more

-d

 

[A C Richards]

Yup. He who dies with the most toys er tools wins. A 25 LG should work just fine. I did all my first billets by hand. Then my blacksmithing teacher had pity on me and let me use his 25 LG. Now for the more complex billets the bigger the better.

 

[John N]

Ive done quite a few decent lumps of 'w's and feathered 'w's on a 33lb anyang. Its very doable on a small hammer, you just need to work quick and smooth, and plan to get the most out of each heat.

When forging 'w's (especially when drawing out at the end) dont be tempted to get the last bit from the heat and work to cold. The pattern has a very annoying habbit of shearing the weld boundarys!

The trick I have found to success with this pattern is to give the welds a good soak after you have set them. ie welding pass, then quick back into the forge, bring up to full welding heat and then leave it at welding heat for a good 4 or 5 mins before taking it out and working it again. This is superespecially important before you start to draw the billet out after creating your 'block' of compressed 'w's

Hope the above kinda makes sense!

 

[JMJones]

For the people that have done w's patterns, how are you getting the pattern to be on the side of the blade? Accordian cut, Ferry Flip, upsetting...? I have a billet ready for this step.

 

[A C Richards]

The short answer is yes. You can do all of the above. I re-stack and make the billet large enough to cut off a slice. Then I forge the slice into the blade shape I want. I usually do not forge the bevels as this imparts too much distortion. What method you use depends on the tools and materials you have on hand. If you have a mig or tig the Ferry Flip is a great choice, it can be done other ways but welding is the easiest.

 

[deker]

I agree with Chuck. I've done it multiple ways. I have mostly settles on the Ferry Flip for my mosaics as I prefer the lessened distortion that method gives me.

-d

 

[S.Knowles]

I agree with Chuck. I've done it multiple ways. I have mostly settles on the Ferry Flip for my mosaics as I prefer the lessened distortion that method gives me.

-d

This, And I cant stand to see all the waste an accordian cut produces. Its more time consuming but WELL worth it . IMO.


Shawn