WSK design revisited.

[JC in SC]

There have been several threads, some recently, discussing the WSK knife design, its merits, shortcomings and various opinions. Some like the SAK-esque functionality in a single fixed blade, where as others prefer separate dedicated tools. Originally, I considered myself in the camp of the later and have commented as such; however, reading these threads made me stop and research the various interpretations of this design in the market place.

Let me preface the following statements with the admission that I have not personally handled any of the following knives, so I'm not particularly qualified to cast judgement; however, the engineer in me cannot help but find fault in some areas of these designs.

Personally, I'm not very impressed with the original Tracker design. The blade seems too short, the saw in completely the wrong place and the "gut hook" seems completely useless. Of all that I have seen, this design appears the most "gimmicky". In contrast, the Dan Koster version caught my eye and seems to have addressed some of these issues (saw location and blade length). On a side note, I'd love to buy one of these to play around with, but so far have been unsuccessful in locating one.

I started to daydream about ways to improve upon the design and suit it more to my tastes. Then I stumbled upon Dan's "no frills" version that is more of a traditional khukri blade shape, sans gut hook and saw, coupled with Dan's trademark finger ring handle. This became the foundation of my concept.

To me, lengthening the blade and adding a true saw back toward the center of the blade would make a much more functional WSK. This also allows the knife to be used as a draw knife without needing a protective medium between your hand and the sawback (again, Dan's idea, not mine). This also seems in line with the original design intent, but without some of the more gimmicky features and what I consider to be an awkward layout. Here is my interpretation.

Obviously, the handle configuration is a complete rip-off of Dan's; however, I consider imitation to be the sincerest form of flattery and hopefully Dan will as well (keep in mind that I'm not planning on becoming a competitor of Dan's any time soon). The detail of the sawback isn't completed yet, but I intend this to be comparable to the razor tooth layout of your average Corona saw (i.e. highly effective). I need to determine an economical way of cutting this profile though. I think raising the sawback slighly relative to the spine will allow it to saw through materials larger in diameter than the length of the saw.

Currently, the thickness is set at 3/16", but lengthening the blade could allow for a further reduction in thickness (i.e. weight). The balance between length and chopping ability would need to be established. I have a KABAR Khukri that is ~1/8" thick, but a little longer and it seems to function reasonably.

I'm curious to get the opinions of both WSK enthusiasts and naysayers. What do you like/dislike? What other functionality (not gimmicks) could be added? Would you prefer a longer/thinner blade or a shorter/thicker one?Eventually, I'd like to have one of these made or make one myself and, depending on the total cost, perhaps a second for a passaround of sorts. Again, I'm not planning on becoming a maker. I'm just inquisitive by nature and have been intrigued by this design and how I could make it better.

 

[pitdog]

I agree where you are coming from regarding the saw placement but if I'm honest I prefer the shape of Dan's Survivor blade as it is now rather than the recurve(?)one that you have illustrated, that is just my personal opinion though and it may well be that yours performs better at chopping !

 

[RoyalM]

You bring up many good points and your design looks interesting, on this line of thinking did the Pathfinder Survival School/Wilderness Outfitters not have a knife with a lot of the features you mentioned?

I'm sure someone more learned in the ways of WSK's will be along in a moment.

 

[Macclint]

It looks nice, kinda like a Khukri.

I'm working one a handmade version of my own... (even though I have the TOPS version)

From a post I made on the Hoodlums forum....

I probably should have waited to show this when I slab handles on it, but... I really like my knife. I know it's a miserable thing compared to the wares of the great knifemakers on this forum (Maybe I should hang this on my mom's fridge), but how I do love it.

It's made to be similar to the Tom Brown Tracker knife, only a little longer with 4/16 in thick 5160 steel. (an old India sword blade with a blunt edge) The cord wrapped handle is temporary as my friend Howard (who helped me heat treat the steel on his forge) drilled holes and provided pins for a slab handle. I made this using a dremel tool, hacksaw, files and sandpaper. I used gun blueing for the finish.

Clint H.
http://www.wanderingones.com

 

[JC in SC]

I agree where you are coming from regarding the saw placement but if I'm honest I prefer the shape of Dan's Survivor blade as it is now rather than the recurve(?)one that you have illustrated, that is just my personal opinion though and it may well be that yours performs better at chopping !

I actually lucked into an open spot on the Survivor list and it should be here Friday I like that blade shape as well, but feel it diverges from the original WSK concept. I'm going for a traditional Khukri shape, so my model might need a little more adjustment. I think it goes without saying that the Survivor will be compared to my Kabar Khukri and whatever I come up with as a result of this thread. It is hard to imagine the Kabar keeping pace with the Koster though!

You bring up many good points and your design looks interesting, on this line of thinking did the Pathfinder Survival School/Wilderness Outfitters not have a knife with a lot of the features you mentioned?

Dan's version is the only one that I have seen that was (in my opinion) dramatically different than the original Tracker design. This isn't to say that other versions aren't out there, I just haven't found them.

I should have mentioned in the original post that I know a lot of people like and use a knife of that original design or something similar. I don't intend this to be a bash session of those designs, they're just not my personal preference. Hence the need to design something somewhat unique!

It looks nice, kinda like a Khukri.

I'm working one a handmade version of my own... (even though I have the TOPS version)

To be honest, I like yours better than the original. Looks kinda rustic.

 

[Shotgun]

I kinda like the original as far as looks are concerned but as far as function I can't see it being all that great when compared to a regular bowie of similar size. Although I've not handled one personally, everyone that has them that I've talked to regards it as more of safe queen/show piece. As far as the saw, I don't like saws on knives especially knives that can chop and baton. Also, if you are going to put a traditional saw blade on yours, wouldn't you have a problem with the width of your knife. Seems that a saw that wide would have to cut through a lot more material and in return, take longer. To me a traditional khukri is the best WSK. That's probably why a lot of the interpretations get closer and closer to looking like khuks.

 

[pitdog]

I think if you are trying to stay honest to the origional concept that the section of edge closest to the handle is a steeper grind than the the edge toward the tip as the tip end is for chopping and the inner for finer tasks !

 

[JC in SC]

I kinda like the original as far as looks are concerned but as far as function I can't see it being all that great when compared to a regular bowie of similar size. Although I've not handled one personally, everyone that has them that I've talked to regards it as more of safe queen/show piece. As far as the saw, I don't like saws on knives especially knives that can chop and baton. Also, if you are going to put a traditional saw blade on yours, wouldn't you have a problem with the width of your knife. Seems that a saw that wide would have to cut through a lot more material and in return, take longer. To me a traditional khukri is the best WSK. That's probably why a lot of the interpretations get closer and closer to looking like khuks.

I've been contemplating a few ideas with regards to blade thickness. One would be to make the blade longer and with more belly at the tip in order to provide the necessary weight for being a decent chopper, while also providing the slenderness needed for an effective saw. The other is to thin the blade along the length of the saw ONLY. The first option potentially compromises batoning ability, where as the second compromises overall feasibility.

I think if you are trying to stay honest to the origional concept that the section of edge closest to the handle is a steeper grind than the the edge toward the tip as the tip end is for chopping and the inner for finer tasks !

I agree completely. Practically speaking, this would be easy enough to do, but with the 3D modeling software I have, it isn't so straight forward to model. Truth be told, I spent more time on the overall shape of the blade and particularly the handle as opposed to the grind(s). Ideally, I think you'd want a flat or hollow grind for the straight edge close to the handle and a full convex grind along the belly of the blade.

I appreciate the feedback, keep it coming!

 

[pitdog]

Definitely Convexed on the main belly !!!

 

[Carolina River Rat]

I've always liked Mark Terrell's WSK. I don't own one but I like the way it looks.

 

[Joezilla]

Tim Horan does a great looking WSK.

Still doesn't mean I would buy one at any price tho

 

[Macclint]

I've seen a photo of one of Beck's knives, and the "belly edge" (shaving tool was definitely hollow ground, and the grind extended into the guthook.

 

[Echo4v]

I like your design but, what is the hole in the blade for? My first guess was thumbhole for using as a drawknife. It that is the case I would move it back towards the handle a little more. I also think that moving that hole more towards the handle would give you a more tip heavy balance which, IME, will give you better performance as a chopper.

JMO
David

 

[Bumppo]

Instead of the one big hole in the blade, I would like to see either three 1/4" holes in a triangular pattern that could be used for making/ twisting cordage, or the Triangle pattern with a slightly larger hole in the center for smoothing shafts.

 

[CShepherd]

Instead of the one big hole in the blade, I would like to see either three 1/4" holes in a triangular pattern that could be used for making/ twisting cordage, or the Triangle pattern with a slightly larger hole in the center for smoothing shafts.

Those are both cool ideas. I would like the first one as I'm not that likely to be making arrows.

Charlie

 

[JC in SC]

I've seen a photo of one of Beck's knives, and the "belly edge" (shaving tool was definitely hollow ground, and the grind extended into the guthook.

I was referring to this area as the straight portion of the blade and the curved part as the belly (I'm not sure what is correct here). Regardless, I think the straight portion should be flat or hollow ground. For me at least, flat would be easier to do.

I like your design but, what is the hole in the blade for? My first guess was thumbhole for using as a drawknife. It that is the case I would move it back towards the handle a little more. I also think that moving that hole more towards the handle would give you a more tip heavy balance which, IME, will give you better performance as a chopper.

JMO
David

I was intending the forward hole to enhance grip when choking up on the tip of the blade to use the curved portion for detailed tasks like skinning. I think the curved portion of the spine should provide adequate grip when using the blade as a draw knife.

Instead of the one big hole in the blade, I would like to see either three 1/4" holes in a triangular pattern that could be used for making/ twisting cordage, or the Triangle pattern with a slightly larger hole in the center for smoothing shafts.

My knowledge of making cordage is zero, so please elaborate on this process and the use of the three holes. It definitely sounds interesting.

 

[Bumppo]

JC in SC, I got the idea from looking at three strand rope and read somewhere that three strands twisted together was stronger than one thick twisted rope. I figured that holes in a triangular pattern drilled through a plate of steel that was bolted to a post would be a good way to make my own. I twisted three thin cords by hand, put them on spindles, and fed them through the holes. The loose ends were tied onto a sturdy stick and twisted so they evenly wrapped around each other, and I ended up with a pretty nice piece of rope. This was years and years ago. If I recall correctly, the single strands are twisted in one direction, and when wrapped together, the twist should go the other way. That I read in a knot tying book. When the movie "The Hunter" came out, I ordered the TOPS Tracker knife, and the idea came back, along with the shaft sizing/ smoothing hole, but arrow shafts were only one thing that hole could be used for. Making pegs, rakes, uniform trap parts, seat backs, chair bottoms, and who knows what else on a rainy day when you are stuck in camp. I never had the chance to make the modifications, but I think that they are sound ideas.
Of course, you would not bolt it to a post, but you could wedge it into a stump.
If the holes might weaken the blade, maybe a handle or butt could have the holes there.

I am not a big fan of the recurved blade, a straight edge to a big belly makes more sense to me, if you want to grind the edge towards the handle to a better angle for use as a drawknife, just do that. The stepped edge is difficult to chop with. If you want a saw edge for sawing, that is great, but if you are just notching for traps like figure fours, you don't need a three or four inch saw, just a few teeth, maybe an inch, inch and a half. As long as it can be sharpened by the user, maybe a swiss army knife type saw edge would be all that is needed. Maybe just in front of the index ring guard.

Now I came up with a dozen more uses for making uniform shafts, but that can be left for a different post.

 

[Ramm9]

Thought you might like to see this. If you go to the original post and scroll down Dave Beck chimes in also.

I found these sketches of Tom Brown's orignial Tracker & Scout knives:

 

[JC in SC]

I am not a big fan of the recurved blade, a straight edge to a big belly makes more sense to me, if you want to grind the edge towards the handle to a better angle for use as a drawknife, just do that. The stepped edge is difficult to chop with. If you want a saw edge for sawing, that is great, but if you are just notching for traps like figure fours, you don't need a three or four inch saw, just a few teeth, maybe an inch, inch and a half. As long as it can be sharpened by the user, maybe a swiss army knife type saw edge would be all that is needed. Maybe just in front of the index ring guard.

I wanted to retain somewhat of a traditional khukri shape, which is why it has the recurve. The no frills Koster WSK that I've been talking about is the bottom blade in this picture:

I'm basically trying to emulate that design, but with the addition of the small sawback for added functionality and a little more blade length overall. I'm still working the blade shape and length, but this is the style I like where as others like the Tracker style. I think I need to smooth the curve between the flat and the belly a little as well as drop the point slightly.

I think adding the 3 small holes for cordage wrapping is a unique idea. I adjusted the model to include three 1/4" lanyard tubes in the handle area so that it doesn't affect blade strength. The size/placement of these might need to be adjusted as well.

 

[thwolf]

wow JC, those are some beutiful blades, I wonder though, does the hole in the blade still retain its utility, as a finger hole, with the addition of the saw back?

I feel just a little bit stupid for having to ask this, but can you explain what a draw knife is? and show how you would hold the knife, especially the top model, as such?

your design turned out alot better than I thought it would, however, I can't under stand at all what the "gut hook" could be used for, I know for gutting an animal, but the location of the hook, as seen in the majority of WSK designs, in relation to the forward cutting edge makes it, IMHO, a useless feature, the point of the hook it to cut the abdominal skin not cut into the gut bag (and destroy the meat).

any way, like I said, they turned out beutifuly, good design work!

Koster sure does some beutiful work too!