WTF is AUS-4 steel?

To harden most cutlery steels, they are first heated to a very high temperature and held there until the steel transforms into austenite which is just a particular phase of steel like ice is of water. As the steel is held at that temperature more of it transforms to austenite and the alloying elements start dissolving into the austenite. When you have the necessary amount dissolved the steel is cooled rapidly and it transforms into martensite, this is then transformed into a mixture of various phases during tempering depending on the steel.

-Cliff
 
You are right, Cliff. The maximum hardness of 66/67 is reached with carbon content above 0.55 or so. 0.4C is limited to a little less than 60.
 
kel_aa said:
Kershaw can put Aus 8 in their Antelope hunters, Camillus Aus 8 (corrected, was under impression it was 154CM) into their Cuda EDC, and even Smith Wesson 440C in their folders, all at that price. Why do you accept less from CRKT?
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I personally don't have a problem with with the use of AUS-4, 420HC and 425M on inexpensive knives. All of these steels can be made to do a pretty darn good job. It's nice that other companies use better steels, but I also have to find the ergonomics of the knife to be to my liking. The steel is only a part of my decision making process when it comes to choosing a knife. If there are two knives that I like equally, then that is about the only time I will go for the better steel.
 
Crkt seemed to hit its peak untill they started with aus-4 & 420j2;I'm waiting for aus-1 with no carbon, no vandium, no nothing!:jerkit:
 
Just bought an M16-03Z and love it. Had a knife " Benchmade" with ATS 34, hated the steel, loved the design because I am left handed. Gave it away. First thing I did with the M-16 is removed the silly pocket clip. I am left handed and they did not make this one reversible. If reversible I would still have removed it though. I liked the benchmade because of it being suitable for lefties. Took the clip of off the Benchmade also. Hate clips if you did not notice. Same with the M-16 with its carson flipper. Do not know why anyone would want to use the thumbstuds though when the flilpper is easier. I would rather have a knife you can sharpen and use a bit and hit it again a few swipes when it dulls. The ATS 34 just stunk in this catagory and I found it to dull just as fast as good old 440c. AUS-4 so far is working fine for me. We will see as time goes by. As far as I am concerned they can throw away all their scientific formulas and give me 440c PROPERLY TREATED and be done with it. On can make a knife with 440c and then one can MAKE A KNIFE WITH 440C if you get my drift. Throw away all the science and bring knives down where knives should be. I saw a benchmade pocket knife the other day with a price tag of $210.00. I can buy a decent gun for that price. There is no knife worth that much money unless you want a custom for collector reasons. M16-03Z wins my heart with the Auto Lawks. What a beautifuly designed knife. I looked at the EDC but it was not big enough to fill my King Kong size hands. The M16-03Z has Zytel scales and an aluminum back spacer. I read conflicting reports from site to site so I e-mailed the company. They used AUS-6 for a while. Now it seems the AUS-4 is used on the Zytel handled knives and AUS-8 for the aluminum and titanium scaled knives. If AUS-8 is like ATS-34 you can keep it. I do not want to have to be a rocket scientist to have to put a good edge on a knife. I have been sharpening knives for over 32 years now since a kid and have always been able to shave with them after till they started making knives like you were going to use them to cut steel or something. Use a knife for what it was intended to be used for and a Decent 440c or one of it varients works fine. If you want to cut steel buy a hack saw it is much cheaper than spending eighty bucks or much much more on a knife you cannot sharpen. Looking at someones avatar I thought this was a blade forum and not a Porn Site.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
.... For a lot of cutting, the performance of those knives can be radically increased by adjusting the edge profile and choice of finishing grit, easily pushing them past "better" steels with stock edges.

-Cliff
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I presume that you mean reprofiling to a more acute edge angle and polishing the edge with a finer sharpening grit. How do you know how acute an edge these softer/lesser steels can hold? My thinking has been that the better steels not only hold an edge longer, but can be reprofiled to a more acute edge so they also cut much better.
 
Twindog,
This thread is 1 1/2 years old and Cliff has since been banned. You won't be getting an answer from him.

Cliff's thinking was that most of the premium steels obtain their edge retention through the presence of large carbides. He felt that the carbides limited how thin an edge you could put on a premium steel because if you thinned out the edge too much there was not enough steel left to support the carbides and they would get torn out in use leaving a torn edge.

There were and are a number of folks who disagree with this theory.
 
It is quite simple.
AUS-4 is not for folks that will spend time and money on their knives.

It is easy to sharpen.
It takes a good sharp edge.
It looses it faster than a 'better' steel.
But who cares when you can just sharpen it again.

Go to a 'better' steel, which is harder to sharpen.
Then you need to know how to sharpen well.
And someone that just wants a knife to cut things, will run into trouble with a dull knife.

Easy to sharpen is really important for the regular joe.
AUS-4
 
"Cliff's thinking was that most of the premium steels obtain their edge retention through the presence of large carbides. He felt that the carbides limited how thin an edge you could put on a premium steel because if you thinned out the edge too much there was not enough steel left to support the carbides and they would get torn out in use leaving a torn edge."

There is also the part about using lower edge angles with coarse finishes to increase edge retention. With a very coarse finish (100 grit) and a very low edge angle (sometimes as low as 5 degrees per side) on a high volume carbide steel like D2 or S30V, a course, slicing type edge would last for an incredible amount of time in Cliff's tests.

Of course, the above rules also apply to higher end steels as well as lower end, and I think Cliff's contention was that a rebeveled blade of AUS4, 420, etc. could out cut a higher end steel left at the factory bevel simply based on the edge shape and finish. A rebeveled D2 will outcut a rebeveled 420.
 
Most people who know how to reprofile blades into more efficient cutting configurations aren't going to be buying AUS4 blades in the first place. There's no substitute for buying good steel and doing the best you can to optiminally configure it.

I was very disappointed when companies like Gerber and CRKT began using junk steel in their knives. The worst of the bunch is 420J2, which used to be suitable only for blade handles and liners. Now it's used as blade material. Many companies have stopped listing their blade steel entirely on their low-end knives and list it simply as "surgical stainless."

P.S. Was Cliff banned for good, or was he suspended? What was the problem?
 
Old threads die hard.


I too wish CRKT would stop mucking with the steel and stick to something like Aus-8 or 440C.

That said my M16-13Z performs well as a beater EDC and 'hones' my sharpening skills , I sharpen it after heavy use cutting down boxes and the like and it will take a shaving edge.

It does what I expect of it for the whopping $19.99 I paid for it :D

But I still wish they would use at least Aus-8, I would not mind paying the extra money on a knife that I like the design.
 
Confederate said:
Most people who know how to reprofile blades into more efficient cutting configurations aren't going to be buying AUS4 blades in the first place. There's no substitute for buying good steel and doing the best you can to optiminally configure it.

I was very disappointed when companies like Gerber and CRKT began using junk steel in their knives. The worst of the bunch is 420J2, which used to be suitable only for blade handles and liners. Now it's used as blade material. Many companies have stopped listing their blade steel entirely on their low-end knives and list it simply as "surgical stainless."

P.S. Was Cliff banned for good, or was he suspended? What was the problem?
Click to expand...

Not that I think that 420J2 is great stuff, but it is better than 420, which is used for liners. You can see from the charts that420J2 has a bit less chromium and about twice the carbon compared to 420J. I put 420HC in for reference.

I don't have a knife with 420J2 nor am I likely to, although I find some of the CRKT designs to be quite appealing.

____________420J_____420J2____420HC
Carbon______0.15______0.32______0.40-0.50
Cr___________14____12.00-14.00___12.00-14.00
Moly_______________________________0.6
Van_______________________________0.18


Cliff was banned in September, permanently as far as I know, for insuliting the owner of Bladeforums among other things. Cliff had been walking the line for years with some of his negative remarks and finally crossed it.

me2,
but toward the end he was not acknowledging that data. He just got caught up in the particle size argument, at least as far as I could follow.
 
Thanks for the clarification. I bought a couple of Cold Steel fixed blades that have 420 stainless. I've heard they're pretty good for what they were designed for, but now Cold Steel is making them out of a cheaper (4116 Krupp) steel they claims is a better stainless.

Sometimes a steel can be good and the heat treat fine, but the grind of the knife is terrible. A lot of folks, me included, have had a hell of a time sharpening chisel grind knives, and many of those mistakenly blame it on the steel. You can sharpen it until your crock sticks turn black and the blade remains dull because the angle's all wrong!

Finally, as far as old threads are concerned, I'm all for them. There's a lot of good information in old threads.
 
dont knock it till you try it. i have a few crkt's in aus4 and they do just fine. all knives no matter what steel is used has to eventually be sharpened. from what ive read zdp189 and s30v stainless are great edge holders but are very brittle and their edges chip out easily and tips are brittle. aus4 is tough as nails and wont chip out or the tip break off easily but not as good in edge holding. its a trade off for whats more important to you.,,,VWB.
 
I looked at CRZT M16-13Z today at Big 5 and they want $39.99. Is that the going price now or can I find it for ten less somewhere? It's a great design and possibly we will be buying two as starter knives. We're not worried about the steel at this time. I don't like the studs, though...I wish it had thumb hole. I'll have to look at if it's AUS4 or 6.
 
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