WTH is going on!!

GTH11

GTH11

Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
627
:barf:Guys im sick to my stomach!!!!!!!!!!!
We just went through a mall shooting this week here in Oregon, and my heart is wrenched in the news of this school schooting in Conn!!!
Who are these monstrers!!!!!!
These creeps are beyond comprehension!!!!!!:mad:

Love and strength to the people of Newtown:sorrow:
 
There were no details on the shooter yet. I am not passing judgment on this one just yet.

Society is not sick, however we have been deluded into believing that we do not have a right to exterminate bad seed. This is not a reality based stance.
 
Probably not wise to let these discussions turn political... but when we talk about shootings, inevitably the next thing that is raised is how many of these would occur if we had stronger controls on who can own a gun.

I know, I know... we all worry that if guns are outlawed knives will be next. And then pointed sticks. And then toothpicks. These reductio ad nauseum discussions never yield anything besides paranoia.

Alas, that leaves us with a problem... guns are readily available for lunatics as well as conscientious citizens because there are very few ways to tell the difference, and no way to effectively regulate when the difference is noted (or when someone crosses the line).

To answer the question before it's asked... yes, I own guns, and yes I am glad that I can. But then I'm not crazy (as far as you know). Neither am I ever likely to use those guns to put down someone who is crazy and armed. So sadly, though I own guns they won't serve any really useful purpose. How many others wouuld say the same if answering honestly?

- Greg
 
Great question Greg!!
Im prepared to defend my family within my home with whatever is necessary.
Im starting to wonder if these first person shooters games are starting to inspire these kids, or give them an idea of feasability!
Obviously simple criminal background checks dont work!
Greg
 
I feel your pain.

The following comments aren't going to make me popular with some on this forum, but they can't deny that the words are the truth.

As long as everyone who wants a gun can get one almost anywhere...with little or no checking...this won't stop.
As long as anyone can carry a gun anywhere they want , this won't stop.
As long as kids and young adults play games that glorify killing en-masse, this won't stop.
As long as we keep letting people who commit violent crimes walk away or sit in prison for life ( which is not that bad to them), this won't stop.
As long as we keep covering for our kids when they break the law, this won't stop.
As long as we have no accountability, and everyone is entitled to whatever they want, this won't stop.
As long as anytime someone gets slighted, or comes in second best, he can throw a tantrum , or shoot the other person,( Because we are all winners - Right?) , this won't stop.


An example is that this week they executed a man in Florida....who murdered nine people during a crime spree in 1986.
Last year Florida executed a man for killing a police officer in 1978.
In doubt either of these guys really worried about execution when they did this....because it was not likely to happen.

My idea would be;
Use a gun in a crime...any crime.....mandatory jail for 10 years.
Get caught selling or posessing drugs with a gun on you - Mandatory 10 years.
Shoot at a person or a dwelling - Mandatory 10 years.
Shoot at a person and injure them - Twenty years to life.
Shoot a person and kill them - five years for appeals... and execution.

Don't get me started on the trend toward "Gentle" and "Humane" execution. Hanging is fast and gentle as far as I am concerned.
 
Agree with some of what Stacy says but ...... if you outlaw guns from places and from getting them then that basically says everyone that obeys the law will be defenseless. Well not defenseless, you can call the cops, hang out for a while, hope there is one around, hope that it isnt the cop who has flown the nest.

I really hate this stuff because not only is it very sad for the people affected (that part really sucks), but it also gives the anti gun people a huge amount of ammo per say coupled with the current media situation in this country.Really how often do you see the articles when someone is using a gun to defend themselves against robbery or intrusion. Maybe in the local news but it rarely if ever makes main stream media.

Too top it all off I am sure if someone was carrying and had the sack to use it to shoot someone in a similar situation that person would probably get sued by half the people in the area (even though he was protecting them) and if the said person gets off scott free from that they can be sued later on by the perps family, this is all after probably spending a amount of time in jail, having his gun taken for evidence which he probably wont get back (why I carry a $350 gun vice a $1200 one).

Its ok though, they only have one or so generations to make it thru then they will have control over all of it and the vast majority will play right along so they can get there handouts.
 
My prayers and thoughts are with the families of the victims.
It really is a fallen world we live in.

Stacy I agree with you on most of your points. And I think that our society definitely does very little to discourage violent acts such as this

bladsmth said:
.......As long as anyone can carry a gun anywhere they want , this won't stop.
Click to expand...

The problem is that it is already ILLEGAL to carry a firearm on school property, and a lot of other places. Making something illegal does nothing to stop people who are hell bent on committing a crime. All it does is tie the hands of law abiding citizen's.

Just my humble opinion.
 
quint said:
Agree with some of what Stacy says but ...... if you outlaw guns from places and from getting them then that basically says everyone that obeys the law will be defenseless. Well not defenseless, you can call the cops, hang out for a while, hope there is one around, hope that it isnt the cop who has flown the nest.

I really hate this stuff because not only is it very sad for the people affected (that part really sucks), but it also gives the anti gun people a huge amount of ammo per say coupled with the current media situation in this country.Really how often do you see the articles when someone is using a gun to defend themselves against robbery or intrusion. Maybe in the local news but it rarely if ever makes main stream media.

Too top it all off I am sure if someone was carrying and had the sack to use it to shoot someone in a similar situation that person would probably get sued by half the people in the area (even though he was protecting them) and if the said person gets off scott free from that they can be sued later on by the perps family, this is all after probably spending a amount of time in jail, having his gun taken for evidence which he probably wont get back (why I carry a $350 gun vice a $1200 one).

Its ok though, they only have one or so generations to make it thru then they will have control over all of it and the vast majority will play right along so they can get there handouts.
Click to expand...

I also agree with most of what Stacy has posted, with the exception that you have already noted. But, there is also something that we need to proactively do with the vast numbers of insane and ferral people who are apparently running lose in the population. When it comes down to it, 95% of the population can probably be trusted to run free, but 5% should be segregated long before they have the opportunity to carry out a mass tragedy. I don't know how to sort them out, but we are not going to stop these things until we learn to do so, and the whole anti-discrimination/anti-profiling kneejerk reaction will need to give way to something much more reasonable if we are going to get there. The first admission must be that there are rabid sub-human savages amongst us, who have no business sharing the streets with the rest of humanity, unless they are muzzle and on a tight leash. They come in all shapes, genders, sizes, creeds and shades, and we need to learn to deal with them rather then continue to try to somehow regulate the entire population.

n2s
 
Well Stacy,
Over in China a mad man wounded 22 primary grade school children with a knife. Would tougher knife laws prevent that???
I do agree that If you hurt somebody you should be made to pay with time in jail or your life to fit the crime.
Tougher laws on gun knives and base ball bats usually doesn't stop a mad man.
 
Agreed, I don't think that making these things illegal is the answer. Changing the way the laws are applied and the social attitude towards them is what needs to be done....and that is a hard change.
No easy answers for this.

An example of the change in attitudes that needs to be made is:
When I was younger, if a person showed up at a birthday party for a child ( or an adult, for that matter) with a gun in his waistband, or on his belt ( and he wasn't a police officer), they would be asked to leave...or the police called. If this wasn't done, every parent there would take his child and leave....and they would not be back at that persons house again. The social structure would not allow such conduct...and they shouldn't. There is no need to have a loaded gun at a birthday party.

Fast forward to today.
Every day, probably many times a day, a person is killed at a birthday party ,or a wedding, or at a picnic, because someone has a gun.... and drinks....and gets pissed when someone says or does something, or his ex-girlfriend/ex-wife kisses their new partner. Why they need a gun there defies logic, and why these tragedies happen defies any argument about "rights". But it happens all the time because no one says anything about it. If they did, he would probably shoot them.
Many arguments end in gunfire...not because someone is protecting their family or property, but because they are pissed at the other person. Why, because the social structure allows it. No one tells these people when they are kids that this isn't good conduct, and no movie says it is wrong, and the video games all do it...so why shouldn't they.

I also believe that anyone DUI or inebriated in public with a loaded gun should get serious mandatory jail time.

I am not just talking on this. I back up my feelings with my actions.
Another knife person I used to have a lot of business with ( sales and shows) is a gun fanatic. I had told him that I did not want him playing with his pistol when I was around ( he loves to pull it out of his pocket or waistband and wave it around). We were at a knife show, and while in the hotel room Friday night he pulls his gun out of his pocket, and start pointing it around. I calmly asked him to leave, and when he got upset, I walked out ( of my room). I went to the front desk and had security escort him off the property. The next day , at the show, he said he was sorry and had drank too much ( he isn't supposed to drink at all). I said "OK",...... and have had nothing to do with him since. He calls and asks if I want to go to this or that show with him and I say, No. He calls and asks if I have anything new for sale, or will I do a custom job for him.... and I say no. I wouldn't have this man in my house because he is irresponsible. I also can't believe that the others in the room that night, and his other "friends" ( who often say he scares the S!#! out of them with his constant playing with his gun) don't do the same. If his actions had consequences, he might change his behavior.
 
I disagree that controlling the masses to prevent the misbehavior of a few is ethically correct.
The only time I've been shot at, I can tell you the thing I wanted most was a weapon of my own. I still feel that way.

It is my opinion that the shift in the culture (particularly in my and the following generation) toward valuing ones own feelings over everything else is the mechanism by which individuals turn into these monsters. I don't know how to fix it except by raising each individual child to understand that feelings are not more important than lives. And it's not possible to indoctrinate 100% of the population any more than it is possible to eradicate firearms from American society. Nor are mechanism of indoctrination safe to have around in any case.... (*see firearm utility).

That an adult would go slaughter grade schoolers is incomprehensible to me, but it has happened. Not far from where I sit right now. This happened recently in Pakistan - the Taliban shot up a couple school girls for ideological reasons and it caused massive public outcry against their cause. The violent nut jobs in this country appear to be disorganized, but somehow united in their notion of how to make their mark. This idea must be contagious to a certain state of mind. I wish I believed in Hell because it would be some solace to think they will suffer.

There is a very cogent article on firearms in America in this month's issue of The Atlantic.
 
bladsmth said:
Agreed, I don't think that making these things illegal is the answer. Changing the way the laws are applied and the social attitude towards them is what needs to be done....and that is a hard change.
No easy answers for this.

An example of the change in attitudes that needs to be made is:
When I was younger, if a person showed up at a birthday party for a child ( or an adult, for that matter) with a gun in his waistband, or on his belt ( and he wasn't a police officer), they would be asked to leave...or the police called. If this wasn't done, every parent there would take his child and leave....and they would not be back at that persons house again. The social structure would not allow such conduct...and they shouldn't. There is no need to have a loaded gun at a birthday party.

Fast forward to today.
Every day, probably many times a day, a person is killed at a birthday party ,or a wedding, or at a picnic, because someone has a gun.... and drinks....and gets pissed when someone says or does something, or his ex-girlfriend/ex-wife kisses their new partner. Why they need a gun there defies logic, and why these tragedies happen defies any argument about "rights". But it happens all the time because no one says anything about it. If they did, he would probably shoot them.
Many arguments end in gunfire...not because someone is protecting their family or property, but because they are pissed at the other person. Why, because the social structure allows it. No one tells these people when they are kids that this isn't good conduct, and no movie says it is wrong, and the video games all do it...so why shouldn't they.

I also believe that anyone DUI or inebriated in public with a loaded gun should get serious mandatory jail time.

I am not just talking on this. I back up my feelings with my actions.
Another knife person I used to have a lot of business with ( sales and shows) is a gun fanatic. I had told him that I did not want him playing with his pistol when I was around ( he loves to pull it out of his pocket or waistband and wave it around). We were at a knife show, and while in the hotel room Friday night he pulls his gun out of his pocket, and start pointing it around. I calmly asked him to leave, and when he got upset, I walked out ( of my room). I went to the front desk and had security escort him off the property. The next day , at the show, he said he was sorry and had drank too much ( he isn't supposed to drink at all). I said "OK",...... and have had nothing to do with him since. He calls and asks if I want to go to this or that show with him and I say, No. He calls and asks if I have anything new for sale, or will I do a custom job for him.... and I say no. I wouldn't have this man in my house because he is irresponsible. I also can't believe that the others in the room that night, and his other "friends" ( who often say he scares the S!#! out of them with his constant playing with his gun) don't do the same. If his actions had consequences, he might change his behavior.
Click to expand...


I can't say that I agree with you on all points, and I sure as hell am not going to try arguing my point of view... While some of your opinions are more severe than mine, and some a bit more lenient, I do applaud your actions to the guy guy you once associated with!

That said, I too am a gun guy, and what you did to your the person in the above, is spot on. Anyone that carries a firearm CCW or other wise should never, NEVER, under any circumstances draw their weapon from it's holster and "wave it around the room"... I know people who drink and carry, I used to carry, but never drank when I did... but no longer (I don't live in a very gun friendly state anymore.)
 
I am going to leave it at this ,since it has made me feel a bit better just to say my piece.

I do not in anyway condone the legislation of peoples private lives or social engineering of society. These create far greater atrocities. What needs to change is the way children are raised, and the mores of the society they are raised in. Making punishment stricter would just be a way to ensure that the parents enforced the value of respecting other people and the law.

All that said, this was a terrible tragedy that probably could not have been predicted or prevented. My heart goes out to all those affected.
 
Stacy is dead on about our children. When I was in High school it was not uncommon during deer season for one of us to have a gun in a truck. It never crossed anyone's mind to pull a gun for anything other than hunting. We settled things with fist. At the present time, our children are desensitized by first person shooter games and a whole other onslaught of horrible environmental problems. My wife is a DCS worker she sees horrible situations that children live in. My children are not allowed to play these games, and my 10 yr old does not have a smart phone like the majority of her peers.
I believe we have the right to protect ourselves by any means necessary. The schools here have armed officers that will hopefully be able to neutralize these situations.....hopefully they never have to. All the laws and BS talk in the world won't stop a social path from finding some way to kill as many as possible. Take care of yourself and your own. My prayers go out to the families who have to endure this horrible tragedy.
 
I know Greg, it makes me sick to my stomach!!! :eek: :( :grumpy:


Personally, I absolutely do NOT believe gun control is going to stop this. For instance, the police already know that the POS that killed two people and himself at the Clackamas mall the other day---- STOLE THE GUN from a friend.

People who obey the law go through the process of getting a CPP, but most importantly... they don't CHOOSE to hurt people with their gun(s).

The whacked out SOBs that want to commit murder are going to get a weapon in their hands no matter how they have to do it.


What makes me the most outraged on top of the tragedy of these situations.... is these jack-ass SOB m'fers kill themselves afterward!!!! Columbine, Virginia Tech, these recent shootings, the list goes on. WHY WHY WHY if these pieces of trash are going to kill themselves, do they work so hard to take out innocent people before hand?!?!?!?!? :confused: :mad: :confused: :mad:
 
First of all,my prayers go out to all the families affected directly and indirectly by this lunacy.I spent the afternoon calling friends and relative in the area to see

if any of their children attended that school.Thank God,no.

As for all the diatribes about guns,Nick nailed it. Gun control laws only apply to people who go through the arduous legal process in order to lawfully own and in

some places,carry a gun. I own many rifles from when I resided in NYS and was able to simply buy them over the counter like aspirin. They now all reside at my

summer cabin tucked away in the safe in NYS. I live in NEw jersey where I cannot legally own a slingshot.

Criminals do not apply for a purchasing or any permit to obtain their guns.Pass all the laws you want,the guns will be there for those who need them to commit

their crimes. A lunatic like this,once his mind was set will get a gun any way he can.

As far as killing themselves afterward and not just doing humanity a favor and offing themselves in the privacy of their demented world it is beyond tragic and

without reasonable explanation.But then,a reasonable person would never even accommodate such heinous thoughts. The only slight salvation is that we will not

be footing the bill for their incarceration,psychological evaluation,gen.pop. separation(lest they be targeted),and possible rehabilitation.

I am heartbroken on this day and live in fear of when my little boy will be going off to school next year.

Peace on earth.
 
Honestly, my opinion is that the atrocities we are seeing can be traced to one main thing, the degradation of our country's faith.

In school our kids are taught that we evolved from slime that was created in some big explosion in the sky, meaning that there is no real meaning to life. We tell them that it's okay to kill unborn kids, the second before being born and the second after doesn't make that big of a difference, thus, life has no sanctity.


I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, my life has meaning. I want to wake up each morning and live to glorify God and help spread his gospel. I believe in the sanctity of human life, because each human was created in God's image.




Laws, movies, video games, these are all side affects, symptoms, and treatments for the symptoms.
 
oldanvilyoungsmith said:
Honestly, my opinion is that the atrocities we are seeing can be traced to one main thing, the degradation of our country's faith.

In school our kids are taught that we evolved from slime that was created in some big explosion in the sky, meaning that there is no real meaning to life. We tell them that it's okay to kill unborn kids, the second before being born and the second after doesn't make that big of a difference, thus, life has no sanctity.


I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, my life has meaning. I want to wake up each morning and live to glorify God and help spread his gospel. I believe in the sanctity of human life, because each human was created in God's image.




Laws, movies, video games, these are all side affects, symptoms, and treatments for the symptoms.
Click to expand...

Well said. We're teaching them that they're just animals, so that's how some of them are acting. Perfectly logical, when you think about it.
 
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I'm a lot with JBS Toolmaker on this-and to varying degrees others. First there is no
solution by banning anything thats going to work. After all aircraft and cars are great
weapons of mass destruction. Been a long time since captain Kangaroo, and Mighty Mouse,
now its global ads for some killing game or other and sewer decency for prime time TV.
All we can really do is support the vultures, media included and express our views.
My condolences to all where it matters.
Ken.
 
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