WW2 Ka-Bar vs bayonet

[cbrstar]

I know my Grandfather kept a knife in WW2 but he was in the British Army so it might not be relevant. My Father told me the reason was that my Grandfather said the bayonets were too dull and they were extremely difficult to sharpen. And having a regular knife was more useful for day to day.

 

[eveled]

The English bayonets for Enfield rifles did not have handles some were blade shaped some were spikes.

The Enfield Jungle Carbine has a knife bayonet.

I’m not sure if they had any other bayonets with handles.

But the point cbrstar ’s grandfather made is a valid one. What makes a good knife is different than what makes a good bayonet. A bayonet is not a knife even if it has a handle.

 

[MBG]

cbrstar , I would have expected the Marines who did carry bayonets to carry some kind of smaller knife as well. It would be interesting to know the type of knife that your Grandfather carried.

eveled , I agree that a bayonet isn't really a knife, though some try to be. The premise of my original question was to challenge the ubiquity of the Mk2. Primarily, I assumed that anyone issued a weapon with a bayonet lug would be required to carry a bayonet. I also assumed that a bayonet wouldn't be paired with a Mk2. Several people have posted that it was up to the individual's choice, which I could believe. Also, as you and others have pointed out the Mk2 wasn't the only knife issued and it wasn't even present until later in the war. I think this last point alone indicates that the Mk2 really wasn't even close to being THE USMC knife of WW2 and the idea that all Marines carried one is fiction.

I generally don't see edged weapons as being very valuable on the battlefield other than in use as a tool. However, the Pacific Theater in WW2 was somewhat different. The Japanese used tactics that made hand-to-hand combat much more likely, and even if this was tactically and strategically inconsequential it surely had a psychological effect.

 

[The Whip]

It looks like a Shark to me but I’m not a Western aficionado to know if there was another model that was similar to it. Here is the knife, picture taken today. There is a story I heard when I was about 7 that it was used on an enemy on Okinawa. I heard that story only one other time the day he gave me that knife. After WWII, he used it on Caribou, Moose and fish in Alaska, countless deer and antelope in Montana and gave it to me in 1997. I’ve used it on Moose, Bear, Deer, Elk, Antelope since then. The last being a little Idaho Whitetail my daughter took last year, 2 days after Grandad died at 102. I figured it was fitting for his knife to be used.

You are right, that appears to be the Shark, also known as the G46-6. I'm surprised that your grandfather bought his rather than receiving it as a Seabee. Western produced them throughout the war for Navy issue. In fact, the company stopped civilian sales during the war to focus entirely on military supply.

Also, as you and others have pointed out the Mk2 wasn't the only knife issued and it wasn't even present until later in the war. I think this last point alone indicates that the Mk2 really wasn't even close to being THE USMC knife of WW2 and the idea that all Marines carried one is fiction.

As you say, the Mk2 definitely was not the only knife issued to Marines in World War II. By my count, there were at least six, probably more. And the notion of claiming that "everyone in [fill in the name of a military unit] carried a [fill in a knife]" has never been true. Supply limitations, mission specialization, and personal preference have always been determining factors.

But I can't agree that the Mk2 "really wasn't even close to being THE USMC knife of WW2." The knife was designed by Marine officers during the war as a fighting/utility knife for Marine issue. Ka-Bar alone produced more than one million Mk2s before the war was over.

While it may be wise to question the validity of everything that Hollywood does, I think the Mk2 has more than earned its status as the quintessential Marine Corps knife.

-Steve

 

[eveled]

This a screen shot I captured from a video about the flag raising on IwoJima.

It’s John Bradley, showing his medical supplies and his KA-BAR. This video was part of the proof that Bradley was not one of the 6 men in the iconic photo.
He had raised a different flag earlier.

At least 1 of the men in the photo also had a KA-BAR.

 

[zzyzzogeton]

It looks like a Shark to me but I’m not a Western aficionado to know if there was another model that was similar to it. Here is the knife, picture taken today. There is a story I heard when I was about 7 that it was used on an enemy on Okinawa. I heard that story only one other time the day he gave me that knife. After WWII, he used it on Caribou, Moose and fish in Alaska, countless deer and antelope in Montana and gave it to me in 1997. I’ve used it on Moose, Bear, Deer, Elk, Antelope since then. The last being a little Idaho Whitetail my daughter took last year, 2 days after Grandad died at 102. I figured it was fitting for his knife to be used.

Definitely a WW2 G46-6, "Shark". They were made for government contract sales, for individual unit sales and for private sales through the PX system.

The OP's grandfather could easily have bought his - possible scenario, he's getting ready to deploy, the supply system is behind getting so he might have gone down to the PX and gotten one there.

Or same scenario, but rather than going through the PX, the CBs units getting ready to deploy put in an order directly to Western. On more than one occasion, Harlow Platts (Harvey's son, Harlon's father) "escorted" knife shipments on the train from Boulder to San Diego to prevent shipments from "going astray", as a box of knives sitting around would grow legs in a heart beat. OP's GF could have considered this "buying it".

 

[cbrstar]

cbrstar , I would have expected the Marines who did carry bayonets to carry some kind of smaller knife as well. It would be interesting to know the type of knife that your Grandfather carried.

I'm afraid that he got captured when they landed in Greece. But interestingly it was the Italian guards that taught him fencing etc. But he actually had a book written about him because he managed to escape! He actually made it all the way to Switzerland for the rest of the war where he taught Fencing and Skiing lol.

My Father said that he had some kinda fancy German Officers knife that he brought back from the War. But he traded it for a electric razor in the 1950's.
Instead he bought a set of William Rodgers "I cut my way". Knives and gave them to my Dad. I have the dagger and my Brother has the hunting knife that looks similar to the "a couple of cats" pic in this post.

 

[OBX351]

View attachment 1368225
This a screen shot I captured from a video about the flag raising on IwoJima.

It’s John Bradley, showing his medical supplies and his KA-BAR. This video was part of the proof that Bradley was not one of the 6 men in the iconic photo.
He had raised a different flag earlier.

At least 1 of the men in the photo also had a KA-BAR.

Cool picture! A picture of that knife can be found on pages 388 and 389 in Bill Walters US and Allied Military Knives of WW2 Book 2.

 

[Choctaw Dan]

When carrying the 1903/1903A3 Springfield or the M-1 Garand, a lot of US troops attached their bayonets high up and to one side (usually left) on their rucks. So don't look for them on their web belts.

 

[Choctaw Dan]

It looks like a Shark to me but I’m not a Western aficionado to know if there was another model that was similar to it. Here is the knife, picture taken today. There is a story I heard when I was about 7 that it was used on an enemy on Okinawa. I heard that story only one other time the day he gave me that knife. After WWII, he used it on Caribou, Moose and fish in Alaska, countless deer and antelope in Montana and gave it to me in 1997. I’ve used it on Moose, Bear, Deer, Elk, Antelope since then. The last being a little Idaho Whitetail my daughter took last year, 2 days after Grandad died at 102. I figured it was fitting for his knife to be used.

Yup, WWII Western G46-6 "Shark." The birds-head pommel combined with just a tad of handle "decoration" shows it to be mid- to late-war. The earliest ones had little to no decoration and a flat "washer" pommel:



And I did the opposite with the knives my father, a WWII vet in Europe, gave me. I used them a LOT until he passed away. Then I "retired" them.

 

[Choctaw Dan]

On 12/7/41 the US military was caught extremely short of knives and other edged implements. They put out an urgent call for knives, and the nation's manufacturers and individual citizens responded. As a result, US WWII knives are of far greater variety and diversity than any time before or since. My father, who had enlisted in 1939, started making knives out of anything that would work. He brought several home with him, including this one: