Thinking about my grandfather today, and knives (as usual) and this may be a stupid question but is there any way to tell by division or regiment what sort of knife he may have been issued? Just for fun I think it would be cool to have an idea. I would guess it was rather random but with all the knowledge of knives on here you never know.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
WWII issued knives
- Thread starter Dubins
- Start date
- Joined
- May 16, 2010
- Messages
- 9,347
First of all you might want to tell us which country you are from.... Kind og difficult to narrow down the question of issued knives without that information.
Here a Cattaraugus 225Q and the FS.
Here a Cattaraugus 225Q and the FS.
Good point. Just seeing if it was possible first haha. He was a U.S army infantryman. He was in the 9th division 39th regiment. He enlisted in 1942 I believe. He first entered Europe on Utah Beach D+4. Hope this helps a bit. I know there where different issues of certain knives depending on the year. What I don't know is if he would have received it at basic training or In the days before deployment ect...
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
I do not recall this exact topic being discussed.
Early in the war, the military issued whatever they could buy on the open market. There was a national drive to get citizens to donate knives for the military.
By early 1943, stocks of regulation patterns were being distributed. I am not sure about records. The Navy and Marine Corps mostly issued MK I's and II's, but some Marines got 225Q's
Also in 1943, the Army adopted the M3 Fighting Knife,, a pure fighting knife for assault troops and those without a bayonet. Over 2,000,000 were produced. However, 100'000's of 225Q's, a fighting-utility pattern like the MK II, were thereafter issued to Army units. The 11th Airborne apparently got 225Q's based on two photographs of members carrying that knife on occupation duty in Japan.
Still, individuals in combat area might carry a non-regulation knife. My uncle did not like the Mk. I he was issued and traded "smokes" to a Marine for a 225Q he then carried to the end of the war.
The OP in this thread collects 39th Inf. Regt. items: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/177343-wwi-and-wwii-family-grouping.
A famous regiment - 1812 - present.
Information and links to students of the reg't's history: http://cmhg.net/king39th/Rules_files/Unit Field Manual FEB 2010.pdf
Early in the war, the military issued whatever they could buy on the open market. There was a national drive to get citizens to donate knives for the military.
By early 1943, stocks of regulation patterns were being distributed. I am not sure about records. The Navy and Marine Corps mostly issued MK I's and II's, but some Marines got 225Q's
Also in 1943, the Army adopted the M3 Fighting Knife,, a pure fighting knife for assault troops and those without a bayonet. Over 2,000,000 were produced. However, 100'000's of 225Q's, a fighting-utility pattern like the MK II, were thereafter issued to Army units. The 11th Airborne apparently got 225Q's based on two photographs of members carrying that knife on occupation duty in Japan.
Still, individuals in combat area might carry a non-regulation knife. My uncle did not like the Mk. I he was issued and traded "smokes" to a Marine for a 225Q he then carried to the end of the war.
The OP in this thread collects 39th Inf. Regt. items: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/177343-wwi-and-wwii-family-grouping.
A famous regiment - 1812 - present.
Information and links to students of the reg't's history: http://cmhg.net/king39th/Rules_files/Unit Field Manual FEB 2010.pdf
Last edited:
I dont believe that soldiers of the U.S. Army was issued a combat knife and was only isues a bayonet.
The Army in general was organized and not a group that was left somewhere and told to survive until they were relieved like the Marines were.
In the Europe Theator they set in England in camps for a year before hitting the main land. Its not like the Marines where they were droped off on little islands and told they eat what the kill once rations run out. Even in N.Africa and Italy they had a chain of supply. Once done in N.Africa and Italy they were sent to England.
The Army soldier was given a bayonet with his rifle and told to go wait until they are told other wise.
The Marines in those days were told here is your equiptment and we have trained you at survival, see ya in a year.
The Army in general was organized and not a group that was left somewhere and told to survive until they were relieved like the Marines were.
In the Europe Theator they set in England in camps for a year before hitting the main land. Its not like the Marines where they were droped off on little islands and told they eat what the kill once rations run out. Even in N.Africa and Italy they had a chain of supply. Once done in N.Africa and Italy they were sent to England.
The Army soldier was given a bayonet with his rifle and told to go wait until they are told other wise.
The Marines in those days were told here is your equiptment and we have trained you at survival, see ya in a year.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
Not really.
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2008
- Messages
- 3,654
Yeah, I have a hard time finding that guy convincing. Might have something to do with the part of his post about "Europe Theator", whoever that is. Sounds like a stripper to me.
Great, wanna be's talking big with no answer.
I have no answer and I dont know an answer but you are wrong and you cant spell good.
Man, I was just power played, I must now go put on some pink underwear and buy me a Cold Steel knife.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
This should not get personal. These are matters of fact that are well-documented.
In the order of your comments:
All branches of the military issued knives - millions of them. In addition to the 2,000,000+ M3's, 1.2 million 225Q's were issued - to sailors, airmen, Marines and Soldiers - in the Pacific and in Europe. Millions more Mark I's were issued, not to mention pocket knives and machetes.
The Marine Corps, in general, was "organized" and did not land formations and tell them to survive until relieved without resupply and reinforcements. One should not generalize from the four small convoys in the first month of the Guadalcanal campaign any more than one should generalize from the Army's supply fiasco in the first days of the North African campaign (where we learned the "hard way" that "top priority" should not mean loaded in the ships' holds first). Larger convoys and substantial Marine and thousands of Army reinforcements arrived at Guadalcanal in the next few weeks. The First Marine Div was relieved by an Army and another Marine division (2nd) after about four months.
I had two uncles who fought in the European Theater. They both boarded ships in the U.S. and landed directly in North Africa. They came home in 1945, having never even seen Great Britain.
Marines were also given bayonets. While in theory, bayonets were to be fixed, just as rifles were to be loaded, only on command, reality was often otherwise for combat soldiers and Marines.
If you have sources of facts to the contrary, please share.
In the order of your comments:
All branches of the military issued knives - millions of them. In addition to the 2,000,000+ M3's, 1.2 million 225Q's were issued - to sailors, airmen, Marines and Soldiers - in the Pacific and in Europe. Millions more Mark I's were issued, not to mention pocket knives and machetes.
The Marine Corps, in general, was "organized" and did not land formations and tell them to survive until relieved without resupply and reinforcements. One should not generalize from the four small convoys in the first month of the Guadalcanal campaign any more than one should generalize from the Army's supply fiasco in the first days of the North African campaign (where we learned the "hard way" that "top priority" should not mean loaded in the ships' holds first). Larger convoys and substantial Marine and thousands of Army reinforcements arrived at Guadalcanal in the next few weeks. The First Marine Div was relieved by an Army and another Marine division (2nd) after about four months.
I had two uncles who fought in the European Theater. They both boarded ships in the U.S. and landed directly in North Africa. They came home in 1945, having never even seen Great Britain.
Marines were also given bayonets. While in theory, bayonets were to be fixed, just as rifles were to be loaded, only on command, reality was often otherwise for combat soldiers and Marines.
If you have sources of facts to the contrary, please share.
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2008
- Messages
- 3,010
Wow tinydick, I mean Evildick. You saying you hate the army or what. Last time I checked, all the branches that went to Europe put their arses on the line more than you did there. England was constantly under attack during the war, so I wouldn't have wanted to be just hangin' there either, but I'm sure your facts came from somewhere that even you can't quote. Impress us with your sacrifice for the country and source your hatred, I mean facts, and I'll be impressed. Until then, STFU.
OP, great question. I would hope this gets back on topic minus that guy. I love WWII info too, and would love to see more answers.
OP, great question. I would hope this gets back on topic minus that guy. I love WWII info too, and would love to see more answers.
Dispute what he types he knows there's more than one reason he's not typing this in German 
Great info Thomas thank you! I will keep looking into the years those knives were distributed and what not to try and narrow it down a bit.
Talking with my uncle today he said grandad talked a lot about colonel "Paddy" Flint, and how looking back he was proud to be in the 39th...but at the time he was pretty sure the AAAO stencil on his helmet was going to get him killed haha (he was quite the joker)
Great info Thomas thank you! I will keep looking into the years those knives were distributed and what not to try and narrow it down a bit.
Talking with my uncle today he said grandad talked a lot about colonel "Paddy" Flint, and how looking back he was proud to be in the 39th...but at the time he was pretty sure the AAAO stencil on his helmet was going to get him killed haha (he was quite the joker)
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
Col. Flint was a "colorful" leader who seems to have inspired his men. He came up with the AAAO on the helmets -- like the Iron Brigade's famous black hats. Unfortunately, he was killed just a few weeks after D-Day.
And I don't think evildick is trying to insult anyone outside this thread - much less the Army or the Marines. He was trying to make a point about the need for a knife.
After all, after the war, the military found that the No. 1 use for sheath knives was opening C-rat cans.
Still, the vets I talked to about it were happy to have them. Many brought a "hunting knife" with them when they joined.
I hear the modern military takes a dim view of non TO&E gear these days. But not then. One uncle was in the artillery and his outfit was armed to the teeth by 1944 - with MG-42's and German machine pistols (altered to reduce the rate of fire=characteristic sound). They figured if security broke down, they would have to fend for themselves - at least for a time.
And I don't think evildick is trying to insult anyone outside this thread - much less the Army or the Marines. He was trying to make a point about the need for a knife.
After all, after the war, the military found that the No. 1 use for sheath knives was opening C-rat cans.
Still, the vets I talked to about it were happy to have them. Many brought a "hunting knife" with them when they joined.
I hear the modern military takes a dim view of non TO&E gear these days. But not then. One uncle was in the artillery and his outfit was armed to the teeth by 1944 - with MG-42's and German machine pistols (altered to reduce the rate of fire=characteristic sound). They figured if security broke down, they would have to fend for themselves - at least for a time.
Psyop
Gold Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2011
- Messages
- 9,412
Well this isn't the first thread he has trolled so I doubt his intentions.
The military today has more nonissued gear than ever. The only things they have been cracking down on is armor and they said no nonissued magazines a while back.
At least that was my experience in Iraq and with friends that are still active. Now units have ways to purchase their own mission specific gear so things are more individualized.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
In 1944, they stopped making the M3 when it was realized that the M4 could serve as a bayonet for the Carbine and as the "Fighting Knife."
Good to hear about the flexibility allowed. There had been reports of unit commanders telling their troops to leave the non-issue knives at home. That seems bureaucratic but not traditionally how Americans view combat situations.
As for trolls, they usually make it crystal clear and end up being "planked." I lack your breadth of experience with the poster in question. Everyone has a bad day now and again.