WWII review and Himalayan Imports resale value

When you refer to "its goofy traditional palm-poker handle," I find that gratuitously disrespectful

I don't think it's possible to express a strong dislike for someone's craftsmanship and simultaneously avoid being construed as disrespectful. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but there's no more tactful way to say how I feel about the handles without diluting or sugar coating what I'm trying to communicate.

In any case, proper technique resolves most of the complaints I have with the handles. In fact, I think it's possible to put a positive spin on the issue and claim that the palm pokers only poke you if you're swinging the kukri with improper technique. Then, maybe we could further claim that that's what the palm pokers are FOR - to remind you when you're doing it wrong!

I suppose the myths and legends of these ancient tools may already provide some explanation for the purpose of palm pokers, but if not, let's just start telling people that my "technique teaching" idea comes from ancient oral histories, kind of like the various explanations of what a cho is for :)
 
I don't think it's possible to express a strong dislike for someone's craftsmanship and simultaneously avoid being construed as disrespectful. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but there's no more tactful way to say how I feel about the handles without diluting or sugar coating what I'm trying to communicate.

In any case, proper technique resolves most of the complaints I have with the handles. In fact, I think it's possible to put a positive spin on the issue and claim that the palm pokers only poke you if you're swinging the kukri with improper technique. Then, maybe we could further claim that that's what the palm pokers are FOR - to remind you when you're doing it wrong!

I suppose the myths and legends of these ancient tools may already provide some explanation for the purpose of palm pokers, but if not, let's just start telling people that my "technique teaching" idea comes from ancient oral histories, kind of like the various explanations of what a cho is for :)

Sure there is, if you try harder.
The sarcasm also isnt so amusing.
Please be respectful of the company and of the members here.
The explanations are in the myriads of threads and information contained in the forum and website. All that is needed is to read them. One can choose to accept the explanations and the way the company chooses to do business or perhaps one should move along.
 
kookery:

Karda, Steely and others have given pretty complete answers to your points about HI strategy, which involves constraints and goals that are quite different from most businesses. You have a right to disagree but you've been making the same arguments in several threads. At some point you might want to consider letting it go and just enjoy the knives, which after all are the product of the HI philosophy and business decisions.

I'd like to respond to one point in your original post. You say:

"I love my WWII, even with its goofy traditional palm-poker handle. I figured out that a looser grip let's the kukri do the work, and also allows the palm-poker to slip past my palm without leaving its "mark". Choking up on the handle is a lot more comfortable too. That, and leather work gloves seem to help a lot. Eventually I'm probably going to get a big belt sander and grind the palm poker off."

Other forumites have commented at various times about the handle ring digging into the palms of their hands. You've already learned that a looser grip helps. It's been noted in past threads that Nepalese tend to cut wood with many small chops rather than giant swings that many westerners use, in emulation of Conan the Barbarian. That's consistent with the loose grip.

Beyond that, you don't necessarily have to remove the whole ring. I've found that filing off the sharp edge of the ring is enough to eliminate all or most discomfort. In fact you only need to blunt the edge of the ring on the palm side. If you work carefully the change won't even be visible except on the closest inspection.

If you prefer to remove the entire ring, hey, it's your knife, do whatever you want with it. Rehandle it entirely if you like. Or better yet, buy an M-43 that has no handle ring and is just as versatile as a WWII model.

I hope that's helpful. Now for something you might not like:

When you refer to "its goofy traditional palm-poker handle," I find that gratuitously disrespectful of the tradition that HI and the kamis are dedicated to preserving. Frankly, that "goofy" comment smacks of cultural chauvinism, like your conviction that modern western handles are necessarily superior, and the subtext that tradition should always give way to convenience. Furthermore, when you speak of getting "a big belt sander" to grind the palm poker off, I wonder if you have any experience at all with woodworking. I wouldn't even take a small belt sander to the handle of a khukuri, let along a big belt sander. I would tape the handle around the ring and file off the ring, starting with a medium file and finishing with a fine file. I would take my time, as befits modifications to a work of fine craftsmanship. A big belt sander would probably destroy the handle altogether. You might as well use a chain saw or an axe. But don't take my word for it. The worst that can happen is you ruin the handle and then you can replace it with micarta as you prefer anyway.

I'm not deliberately trying to be sarcastic; it just came out that way. I think your "goofy" comment pushed a couple of my buttons. :)

-- Dave

Well said. :thumbup:
 
Kookery, saying that you don't like the traditional handle rings is much different than calling the design "goofy" and a "palm poker". In the first case a statement of personal preference, the second implies that every one shares your preference. About like me asking who would possibly do anything as stupid as intentionally corroding a blade.
 
There are reasons and ways to apply a patina to a blade that aren't stupid. It's personal preference. I prefer to use muriatic acid for a more even coating, but I've done quite a few of them. I don't think adding a patina to a khuk enhances the value, though.

Personally, I don't care. I've never sold a khuk. I've given them away as gifts, passed them on to people who could appreciate and use a particular model that I didn't have as much use for, etc. Once the khuk leaves Reno, it's staying with me unless I find a better home for it. I don't feel right selling them.
 
I don't see any reason to buy one anywhere but directly from HI. And therefor don't see a reason to worry about resale value. They aren't expensive new, and I know that the proceeds are going to a good cause. I like the traditional handle, and know how to make it fit my hand with minimal effort. I prefer natural patina to forced, but to each their own. I think that having a discussion about resale value on this forum is less than tasteful, and I would suggest than anyone who thinks that should be a priority needs to spend some time reading what HI is actually about.
 
Seems like Kookery is trying to offer some good ideas and is genuine. Good thread to be able to openly brainstorm w other guys. I think Karda responded to one of my ideas and that HI wants to keep things traditional and also the materials needed to diversify are hard to acquire in Nepal. So you have to respect that they want to stay old school and the limitations that they're under being in Nepal. Some of the suggestions and business ideas might be good for a US company who is more concerned w turning a profit and doesn't have all the religious, cultural, tradition stuff associated w their business and product.
I think it's cool that there are members and moderators who talk about these things because maybe 100 ideas or suggestions are not good or fit the HI company mission but maybe just 1 is and could help.
 
I highly recommend that you do get a knife from Rajkumar.

I don't want to make it seem like any other Kamis aren't as good or as desirable because I have bought 15 HIs and have been more than happy with all of them but I can't help but have a favorite.

So, that being said in my humble opinion the ones I have by Rajkumar really stand out as excellent in every conceivable way. Attention to detail, cosmetics, initial sharpness, etc. I have 5 knives from him and they are all absolutely perfect. I do have a CAK by Lacchu that I feel the same way about as well though.

I totally agree. I got a Gelbu Special a while back by Rakjumar for a real cheap price on Dotd. The fit and finish were excellent. I wish I had more stuff made by him.
 
Thank you for understanding Kazushi.
We do appreciate all the help and ideas our members give, but unfortunately, due to limited resources, manpower, cultural and logistics considerations, some things cannot be implemented or are more burdensome than they are boon. We do our best to work within these limitations and not compromise our quality of product or service. Our consideration, as a business, always has to be "is it good for the business as a whole" and "does in fit in with the things we hold dear and our stated mission".
 
I'd also like to chime in and say that I certainly don't want to come across as not appreciating enthusiasm. I think it's great when folks present their own ideas. If they make good moral and fiscal sense, I'm sure that Yangdu will gladly incorporate them. There is just A LOT behind the scenes that goes on to get these fine blades to our shores, and there is only so many things that can be done to keep them coming as they are. Trying to reinvent the wheel given today's political climate and supply of materials is just not practical.
 
Seems like Kookery is trying to offer some good ideas and is genuine. Good thread to be able to openly brainstorm w other guys. I think Karda responded to one of my ideas and that HI wants to keep things traditional and also the materials needed to diversify are hard to acquire in Nepal. So you have to respect that they want to stay old school and the limitations that they're under being in Nepal. Some of the suggestions and business ideas might be good for a US company who is more concerned w turning a profit and doesn't have all the religious, cultural, tradition stuff associated w their business and product.
I think it's cool that there are members and moderators who talk about these things because maybe 100 ideas or suggestions are not good or fit the HI company mission but maybe just 1 is and could help.
I disagree will Kookery because I think he is one of those people genuinely trying to pull Himalayan Imports' business philosophy and traditional designs into the western world kicking and screaming.
place-to-relax-between-two-palm-trees-that-shade-on-the-beach.jpg
He is like the westerner who sees the native resting under a palm tree. The westerner say, "Hey you there, why are you resting under a tree?. You should get up, go hire some workers, and start a business. Then build more companies and factory's. After a long, hard working career you can retire and relax under a palm tree :eek:.

Even though he says he has respect and believes in Nepali tradition his words and actions betray him (IMO). I was almost like Kookery in the beginning of my journey here. Now I understand what HI is doing (which has been stated again in this thread.
 
I don't know how important resale value is in the Khukuri market or how resale would help a knife making business. I really don't worry about selling any of my knives. My 1st khukuri was bought on Ebay from one of the khukuri house sellers. I think a big problem for new buyers is actually finding the right company that makes a quality khukuri. It took me awhile to even find out that the company HI existed. One thing is americans tend to spell it as "Kukri". So you do a google search for "kukri" and you come up w all the american made kukris and stuff from the HI competitors. I searched Kukri and didn't even see Himalayan Imports come up. Within the little world of Bladeforums I think everyone knows about HI but there are probably a lot of people who aren't members of this site and they end up buying from Amazon, Ebay, or the Kukri or ghurka houses. I would say someone who is good w computers could redesign the HI website to make it more user friendly. Don't know how much that costs though. Also maybe make it so Himalayan Imports comes up when someone searches for "Kukri" or "Khukri" because I bet the most buyers are from USA or Europe and I never knew it was spelled Khukuri till doing a lot of research. I don't know if it's a good or bad idea to have a store on Ebay to sell new khukuris to reach new buyers. When I go to shop for things online I usually go to amazon& ebay. Also having an official Youtube channel may be a good idea so people can get a good idea of all the blades on video. I know that before buying I researched on youtube and there were some guys that have like 40 HI blades in 1 video just showing them all.
 
I don't know how important resale value is in the Khukuri market or how resale would help a knife making business. I really don't worry about selling any of my knives. My 1st khukuri was bought on Ebay from one of the khukuri house sellers. I think a big problem for new buyers is actually finding the right company that makes a quality khukuri. It took me awhile to even find out that the company HI existed. One thing is americans tend to spell it as "Kukri". So you do a google search for "kukri" and you come up w all the american made kukris and stuff from the HI competitors. I searched Kukri and didn't even see Himalayan Imports come up. Within the little world of Bladeforums I think everyone knows about HI but there are probably a lot of people who aren't members of this site and they end up buying from Amazon, Ebay, or the Kukri or ghurka houses. I would say someone who is good w computers could redesign the HI website to make it more user friendly. Don't know how much that costs though. Also maybe make it so Himalayan Imports comes up when someone searches for "Kukri" or "Khukri" because I bet the most buyers are from USA or Europe and I never knew it was spelled Khukuri till doing a lot of research. I don't know if it's a good or bad idea to have a store on Ebay to sell new khukuris to reach new buyers. When I go to shop for things online I usually go to amazon& ebay. Also having an official Youtube channel may be a good idea so people can get a good idea of all the blades on video. I know that before buying I researched on youtube and there were some guys that have like 40 HI blades in 1 video just showing them all.

Maybe a Facebook page too that shows all the products. That is free to create I think

All things we have already thought of or members have brought up. For various reasons we have not been able or willing to implement some of them. We are looking into website redesign and SEO. We are also looking into offering more fair trade handicrafts. To show just how far ahead we've been thinking, the subject of providing guided trekking expeditions to Nepal to various temples and notable places such as the base camp at Everest has been discussed. Ebay, Facebook and Youtube have also been discussed and at this time are not quite viable options. With demand for the product, just here at bladeforums and the website so great, it just would not be prudent to stick more irons in the fire to attend to, to moderate and have to deal with on limited resources and manpower. Virtually all of my time spent here is volunteer. If i do recieve considerations for my efforts, it is minimal and done in friendship, as the last thing i want to be is another mouth to feed.

I've said this before, and i'll say it again.....
I honestly don't know how Auntie Manages all she has on her plate everyday. But she is Sherpa and a strong one at that. I've become convinced there wouldnt have been Uncle Bill, as he was, without her. What i do here and behind the scenes is a mere pittance compared to what she deals with everyday. Sadly, i've worked myself into a bit of a tizzy and have become sickly to the point i'm having trouble just typing these words. Making and taking time for rest and my medications and things IRL, must take priority at the moment. But i hope to be steaming full ahead again in a few weeks.
 
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I disagree will Kookery because I think he is one of those people genuinely trying to pull Himalayan Imports' business philosophy and traditional designs into the western world kicking and screaming.
View attachment 316515
He is like the westerner who sees the native resting under a palm tree. The westerner say, "Hey you there, why are you resting under a tree?. You should get up, go hire some workers, and start a business. Then build more companies and factory's. After a long, hard working career you can retire and relax under a palm tree :eek:.

Even though he says he has respect and believes in Nepali tradition his words and actions betray him (IMO). I was almost like Kookery in the beginning of my journey here. Now I understand what HI is doing (which has been stated again in this thread.

Very well said. This goes for Davidf99 too, & MR2Spyder as well...
 
I disagree will Kookery because I think he is one of those people genuinely trying to pull Himalayan Imports' business philosophy and traditional designs into the western world kicking and screaming.
View attachment 316515
He is like the westerner who sees the native resting under a palm tree. The westerner say, "Hey you there, why are you resting under a tree?. You should get up, go hire some workers, and start a business. Then build more companies and factory's. After a long, hard working career you can retire and relax under a palm tree :eek:.

Even though he says he has respect and believes in Nepali tradition his words and actions betray him (IMO). I was almost like Kookery in the beginning of my journey here. Now I understand what HI is doing (which has been stated again in this thread.

Hah, the funniest part of that is the hammock. Modern Americans didn't like the traditional native American hammock because it looked like it would wrap you up like burrito. So, they added spreader bars at both ends, and now it's hard to stay in an American style hammock without it flipping over and dumping you out. People get hurt in American style hammocks every year, and most of those people aren't even aware that the traditional style hammock exists, and is vastly superior as well as cheaper, lighter, more compact, etc. Only recently in the last decade or 2 have hammock campers rediscovered the traditional hammock, and finally added modern improvements that actually work.

So, in one of my earlier posts that karda thought I was being sarcastic, I was actually sincere when I said that maybe there's some traditional reason I'm unaware of about why Nepali kukris have palm pokers on the handles. The fact that it enforces proper technique (on pain of palm poking) is NOT trivial, and could very well be the reason that it exists and has endured for so long. I'm sure Nepalis have seen other ancient and more comfortable handle styles that came out of India and Persia, and for whatever reason, they decided to stick with their own style. Maybe it's because they want to be different. Maybe it's because they want to enforce proper technique. Maybe it's both, and possibly more reasons that I haven't thought of.

For kazushi, the missing keyword problem is why I tend to keep using the Americanism "kukri" in my posts, instead of the more accurate spelling, even though I know better. It helps people find the knives I'm interested in enough to keep posting about here.

As for resale value, like it or not, the resale value for Himalayan Imports knives is pretty good. Anyone who is considering buying one directly from Yangdu at HI will feel a lot more comfortable with letting their money go in exchange for a high quality product that retains its value. I'm gradually becoming convinced that the HI products are among the best available in the world - despite all the talk about preserving history and tradition, they are NOT merely cultural artifacts! They are competitive with the best of the best in blades (often superior too), and cost as little as 1/10 the price.

Those facts are NOT easy to discover, and they're especially not easy to become convinced about. The whole reason I'm taking the hours needed for sharing what I've learned in detail is because it will save others the effort, and keep HI producing more interesting things that I may want in the future. Plus, I'll admit that keeping Himalayan Imports in business will probably ensure the good resale value is maintained, which will benefit me in the long run if I decide to keep buying them - which seems likely at this point, considering my immense satisfaction with the WWII blem I bought first.

Nobody trusts a cheerleader. The fact that I have 1 legitimate complaint about some minor aspect of HI products, lends credibility to the much longer list of positive things I have to say about them. I think anyone considering buying a Himalayan Imports kukri will be very grateful to have read my opinions about them first. They will have confidence that they'll be getting exactly the high quality product they're expecting, and they'll also avoid the confusion about the palm poker that afflicted me at first, when they learn from my postings that it enforces proper technique.

I see this as a net "win" for Himalayan Imports, and all of us that use and/or collect their kukris.
 
I don't want you to think we don't appreciate your summation and efforts, kookery. I/ we do......
i'm sorry if i misconstrued your intent.
I just want all to understand that Nepalis are practical people and nothing is done here or implemented without great consideration. Nothing is done that doesnt makes sense as a whole. To the benefit of the business, the kamis or our customers.

I've long said that H.I. khukuri are the best value per dollar on the market today for any knife. That in itself is a pretty diffucult feat to manage and maintain.
 
I've long said that H.I. khukuri are the best value per dollar on the market today for any knife.

I agree with you! Now that HI's most vocal critic (me) agrees with you too, it should be pretty persuasive to newcomers that there's something over here that they should take a look at before they buy their next blade.

I found some old photos of me playing with my WWII, and there were enough of them that I could make some animated gifs to show the right and wrong ways to hold the handle to avoid the palm poker. First, the wrong way:

kukri_chop_the_wrong_way_160x107.gif


The right way:

kukri_chop_the_right_way_160x107.gif


I just noticed that right way balances a lot better, and you can see that in the animation. It's a lot less work to snap the blade my wrist. My grip is too tight on both of those animated gifs, though.

I have been liking this grip, with my thumb on the bolster:

DSC_1943_resize.jpg


Once again, my grip is too tight in that photo, but you get the idea. It's a bit dangerous that way for chopping, but for carving up fruit, it works. I like to choke up even further, towards the cho area. Maybe someday I'll grind out the cho and replace it with a choil. I wonder if there is an entymological relationship between the words "cho" and "choil"? If so, then maybe a cho is actually a choil?
 
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