X50CrMoV15, knowledge about it

I used German cutlery with that steel and I find very odd the amount of chipping along the edge.Not sure how they say it's heat treated in the range of 54-56 HRC and still those knifes do chip like a dry loaf of bread.. Am I missing something? Can softer steel chip that bad?
 
My wife's kitchen knives (Berndorf) utilize that steel, it's a set of five knives, a big Santoku, small Santoku, bread knife, utility and pairing knife. I don't really like the steel, it's really really stainless, but doesn't hold on edge at all, needs sharpening very often (we cook a lot). It's surely a nice choice for budget knives, but I imagine VG10 (referring to the 7 year old OP) will be a significant step up :)
 
enro94 said:
I used German cutlery with that steel and I find very odd the amount of chipping along the edge.Not sure how they say it's heat treated in the range of 54-56 HRC and still those knifes do chip like a dry loaf of bread.. Am I missing something? Can softer steel chip that bad?
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Depends on how it is used, but it would require harsh usage for that steel hardened to a 55HRC to chip. It can also depend on how it is sharpened.
 
14 year old post resurrection; about a steel that's a pretty standard German stainless steel, used often in budget mass produced knives, is the same composition (as someone else pointed out) as 1.4116 (Thyssen-Krupp 4116), and while not truly identical, for comparison sake would be a german/European equivalent in the same wheelhouse with similar properties as American made 420hc and Chinese 5cr14MoV...

Nothing special, but with a good production run, a good batch with a good heat treatment, will be a serviceable knife; very stainless resistance, not the greatest edge holding but easy to touch back up, and could be pretty tough, esp. if/when run a tad bit softer

My unprofessional guess on chipping edges, would be A) the heat treatment ran them a bit harder than the proposed and estimated 56, (which would make them more brittle say if they got up into that 58-60 range, which if I'm not mistaken is reaching close to the absolute maximum thresholds of 1.4116. Larin did an article on Nitrogen steels, in which part was comparing 1.4116 to Nitro-B which is essenrially the same but w/ N added, and I believe the max hardness in that article was somewhere in the 62-63 range, but impractical for said steel). Or in the actual steel production itself, could have been a bad batch and formed more/larger carbides along the way? Couple that and the very thin profile of the edges on kitchen knives themselves typically, and it is probably most likely that the edges themselves also could have gotten overheated and cooked a bit in a generic mass production factory sharpening job?

A lot of pure speculation there by me, but certainly not entirely implausible either, on any of those levels, particularly in larger mass production factory settings. I mean, there is a reason big mass production manufacturing companies have a return & defect margin % allowable/expected factored into their targeted quartley goals. Mistakes happen in the processes. Maybe the new guy who just started was working the day your batch went into the oven and or over to the edge grinder? Or maybe it was the old grizzled guy who'd been there 50 years and was 2 weeks away from retirement who already mentally checked out and was just coasting through the motions on autopilot while daydreaming of Cabo? Or maybe it was the last batch run on a Friday, right before a big soccer match, and the crew just wanted to clock out and go meet up at the pub so they turned up the temp a bit on the oven when the manager wasn't looking to "speed up" the process by 5 mins? Who knows, but while I wouldn't say it's "typical" to see these grades of steel be overly "chip prone" in knife edges, definitely more common to see them roll in my experience, it isn't impossible either under the right variables and conditions.
 
They are my sister's and I'm pretty sure that they sharpen them on those retarded sharpening machines which I'm not so familiar with, but I was amazed at the amount of chipping that all the knifes had and she also told me that they cut only veggies and meat on a wooden cutting board... Could it just be bad quality knifes?
 
knarfeng said:
Depends on how it is used, but it would require harsh usage for that steel hardened to a 55HRC to chip. It can also depend on how it is sharpened.
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Wait you don't run into nails while cutting your fruits and vegetables? Maybe I need a new supermarket.
 
enro94 said:
They are my sister's and I'm pretty sure that they sharpen them on those retarded sharpening machines which I'm not so familiar with, but I was amazed at the amount of chipping that all the knifes had and she also told me that they cut only veggies and meat on a wooden cutting board... Could it just be bad quality knifes?
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I would hazard a guess that it's the sharpening machine which is causing the issue. Many of the cheapies leave a jagged edge.

You should be able to sharpen that steel using the unsealed edge of the bottom of a coffee mug as the abrasive surface, the part of the cup which is not glazed. I've done it many times on such blade steel when I did not have an actual sharpening stone handy.
 
Dagoth_Blur said:
Wait you don't run into nails while cutting your fruits and vegetables? Maybe I need a new supermarket.
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Could also be an issue with the chopping block. I've seen folks chop veggies on a glass or bamboo cutting board. Both make me cringe.
 
enro94 said:
They are my sister's and I'm pretty sure that they sharpen them on those retarded sharpening machines which I'm not so familiar with, but I was amazed at the amount of chipping.........
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I think that might be a good suspected place to start... over grinding/sharpening on an electric zip zip pull through sharpener, could be the main culprit? I mean, lots of reputable brands use the steel or one it's equivalents; Wustoff, Henckeks, F.Dicks, etc... with a decent (non machine ground) edge put on to start with, and any half decent sharpening steel to hone it regularly before use, (plus maybe a messermeister ceramic steel for those extra light sharpenings on occasion as needed), one "should" be able to maintain the edge on one of those for a pretty decent enough amount of time before an actual all out sharpening session needs to take place... (provided it is a decent batch to begin w/)...
 
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My family uses a Victorinox chef knife for almost 20 years now. It uses this same steel, but the brand is considered less prestigious than other. It cut fine. We never use machine sharpener. Of course better steel grades would cut more without a doubt.

enro94 said:
They are my sister's and I'm pretty sure that they sharpen them on those retarded sharpening machines which I'm not so familiar with, but I was amazed at the amount of chipping that all the knifes had and she also told me that they cut only veggies and meat on a wooden cutting board... Could it just be bad quality knifes?
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You can test the theory by giving her some less expensive knife in higher steel grade. If the same thing still happens, then it is 100% the auto sharpener. The machine creates blurs, micro serration, and bad angle. With harder steel, the abrasive medium wears out faster, the apex will get rounder, which is also worse for cutting.
 
Deino said:
My family uses a Victorinox chef knife for almost 20 years now. It uses this same steel, but the brand is considered less prestigious than other. It cut fine. We never use machine sharpener. Of course better steel grades would cut more without a doubt.


You can test the theory by giving her some less expensive knife in higher steel grade. If the same thing still happens, then it is 100% the auto sharpener. The machine creates blurs, micro serration, and bad angle. With harder steel, the abrasive medium wears out faster, the apex will get rounder, which is also worse for cutting.
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I've used a Forschner (relabelled Victorinox) 8" chef's knife since the late 1970's. The rosewood handle has warped a bit over the years, but it still cuts well.
 
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