xm18 Availability?

softrockrenegade

softrockrenegade

Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
1,961
i was just looking for another xm18 and the availability on any plateau is like zero!!! only 2 on ebay ! and thats it ! and both for like 700 bucks!! now i got mine for cost from rick and a few months ago there were several on the forums ! my question now is if there is a dry spell on xm18's or is it just my imagination???
 
Limited availability at high demand. It comes at a price... Either it's a monetary cost or cost of time. Monetarily you'll be paying out the nose. At the cost of time you could be waiting a very long period if you don't want to put up the bucks. You get to choose what price you want to pay.
 
i mean i love my xm18 but could i really sell it for 700 bucks?? id kinda feel like i was ripping off a fellow knife knut!!!
 
It's a crime that some are buying 2 and 3 just to sell at an inflated price.

I'm tired of seeing "...bought two with the intention of keeping both but something came up and I need to sell one..." with the price being 600-700 bucks.

Or seeing a Gen 1 or 2 being sold as NIB - these are hard use knives!!!

I believe in a free market system and fully understand the laws of supply and demand, but there's supposed to be a brotherhood among us knife knuts.

I also don't think it's fair to Rick Hinderer that a knife he just sold for $395 gets resold for 2x that amount, sometimes within weeks of it being made.

I'm also all for selling custom knives, one of a kind, ones that use rare and exotic materials for as much as the market will bear. Ricks knives are meant to be used - not kept locked in a safe!
 
Oh how I wish Rick would get with zero tolerance and have them produce XM-18s. Make it near identical and charge 300 or more, it would help eliminate the crazy inflation going on. I want one more for the design then to have a bomb proof folder, already have enough of those.
 
jakeyjake4528 said:
Oh how I wish Rick would get with zero tolerance and have them produce XM-18s. Make it near identical and charge 300 or more, it would help eliminate the crazy inflation going on. I want one more for the design then to have a bomb proof folder, already have enough of those.
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I dont understand where people get notions like this.

Rick does almost everything in the shop himself, and while Kershaw does a fine job making knives it's still a kershaw. 300 for a production xm-18? Maybe some people would shell out that much, but that's only 85 short of what the mid tech sells for at Rick's price (and some dealers pass that price along, actually) and imo a complete waste of money.

Rick already has a gerber out for those who dont want to pay up.

I believe in a free market system and fully understand the laws of supply and demand
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Free markets only exist when there are substitute goods and no barriers to entry and exit. The fact that Rick has IP over the design by definition makes the markets for XM-18s not free. Not that I disagree with that being a good thing, mind you, but it does violate both principles.

The XM-18 secondary market is much closer to a monopolist supply schedule than a "free market". When you understand that demand is a schedule of reservation prices, and resellers can basically price discriminate because they have access to such a larger group of buyers, you can see why prices can so far exceed costs. Not every secondary market xm-18 goes for the same price, in a free market you cannot charge different consumers different prices. Do keep in mind that the xm-18 market does not have true quantity controls like a cartel/monopoly, but the fact that Rick cant keep up with demand effectively causes this to occur.

If you REALLY believed in free market principles, you would take the IP protection away and everyone and their mom would make the xm-18 until the price hit the market clearing point.

p.s. see bolded text, before I get jumped. I am not suggesting the market for xm-18s is actually a monopoly, but rather that that models what is occurring much more closely.

I for one, just plan to wait it out, get on some waiting lists, and pay what I can to get one. Even if it takes 2 years.
 
A free market is a market without economic intervention and regulation by government except to regulate against force or fraud.

I believe in a free market. What I have trouble with are people who take advantage.

This has nothing to do with the removal of IP so a product can flood a market.

This has to do with people creating an artificial shortage to run a price up.
 
Toyz said:
This has to do with people creating an artificial shortage to run a price up.
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It's not an artificial shortage though; I really CAN'T find one for MSRP.
The only way it would be an artificial shortage would be if Rick was creating the shortage on purpose to benefit from secondary market sales, but he DOESN'T benefit from the inflated prices people pay each other.
 
What I mean is that people are buying more than one at a time for the sole purpose of resale.

Rick is obviously still making knives, and hopefully at some point in time his supply will catch up.

Also - if no one paid double retail for the knives in the secondary market then people would stop buying multiple knives for resale.

All this economy 101 BS aside, they look like great knives and I will get one as soon as I can bu a new one at retail or a used one at slightly under retail.
 
Toyz said:
A free market is a market without economic intervention and regulation by government except to regulate against force or fraud.

I believe in a free market. What I have trouble with are people who take advantage.

This has nothing to do with the removal of IP so a product can flood a market.

This has to do with people creating an artificial shortage to run a price up.
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Well you're free to think what you like, be it wrong or right. I dont want to be mean, but you seem to be missing the point; which is that IP protection is both a barrier to entry in the market and it makes the creation of real substitutes impossible. IP is government policy/regulation/intervention, afterall we have the US Patent Office, dont we? And we have a court system that will slap anyone who tries to steal Rick's designs.

I hope you understand Im not saying this to get a rise out of you, but rather to point out that you are, unfortunately, incorrect.

All this economy 101 BS aside, they look like great knives and I will get one as soon as I can bu a new one at retail or a used one at slightly under retail.
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I fail to see how snarky comments about people actually talking about something relevant to the topic is constructive.

stabman said:
It's not an artificial shortage though; I really CAN'T find one for MSRP.
The only way it would be an artificial shortage would be if Rick was creating the shortage on purpose to benefit from secondary market sales, but he DOESN'T benefit from the inflated prices people pay each other.
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Exactly, the shortage of knives has more to do with Rick's limited production ability than everyone with an XM-18 who wants to sell it for a profit getting together and fix prices. The effect is almost the same.
 
I see no value in arguing economics and the legal system as it strays away from the OP.

We agree to disagree.

I could give examples of other knife makers copying knives from their competition and changing the design ever so slightly as to keep out of court but take advantage of the market segment created by the original manufacturer. The Sebenza is a prime example.

I like the knife. I want one. I will not pay more than retail.

Nuff said.

"Snarky" is a good one - haven't heard that in a while!!
 
I think it says a lot of him (Rick) to not jack up the price on these and instead keep it where it's at.
 
It's not as though this is the first knife that these inflated secondary market prices have happened to. There were many before the XM-18 that were selling at one price and went for a helluva lot more on the secondary market. Start collecting Microtechs and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. It's supply and demand. If someone demands the knife and someone has the knife then they are going to try and get as much out of it as they can.

Toyz said:
I could give examples of other knife makers copying knives from their competition and changing the design ever so slightly as to keep out of court but take advantage of the market segment created by the original manufacturer. The Sebenza is a prime example.
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Can you elaborate a bit further on this statement? I'm curious as to which makers and designs you are speaking of.
 
redisburning said:
I dont understand where people get notions like this.

Rick does almost everything in the shop himself, and while Kershaw does a fine job making knives it's still a kershaw. 300 for a production xm-18? Maybe some people would shell out that much, but that's only 85 short of what the mid tech sells for at Rick's price (and some dealers pass that price along, actually) and imo a complete waste of money.

Rick already has a gerber out for those who dont want to pay up.

.
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Then ill explain why I get the notion.

Surely you're aware of the zero tolerance line of knives, kershaw being one of three-i believe-manufactuers licensed to use the hinderer lock bar stabilizer. Kershaw can make some serious folders. The demand for XM18s is way beyond what Rick currently can offer. Why is it that much of a strech to wish for Rick to further open the door with kershaw?

The 300 price tag was just thrown out there. Yes, I'd pay 300 for a kershaw, if it was a model I wanted and that was the price.

Yes I'm aware of the gerber\hinderer collaboration. Which gives me more of a notion to wish that he would do another collaboration with another company, to produce something that is more along the lines of an XM18.

I can't help but think that pay up comment was towards me, what gave you that idea? I passed up an XM18 at 750 that was offered to me. If it had been 500 I would of said yes. As I already mentioned in my other post, its more so the overall design of the XM18 that is its biggest draw to me. That gerber is no where close.
 
What do you guys think ? Are these Ever going to be readily available ??? I would love to have one to Keep and use, not to resell. $395 is a good price and I would pay that, but $600 +, no way. I would not pay that for any knife. I have seen many in the $500-$600 range, but even thats over priced. If there was a sebenza, strider, etc. shortage, does that make them worth $600+.....No Way. The XM18 looks to be a great knife and I understand Rick makes everything right down to the screws, but we need alot more out there to the people who want them. Maybe someday when I am old and grey, they will be readily available !!!
 
jakeyjake4528 said:
The 300 price tag was just thrown out there. Yes, I'd pay 300 for a kershaw, if it was a model I wanted and that was the price.


I can't help but think that pay up comment was towards me, what gave you that idea? I passed up an XM18 at 750 that was offered to me. If it had been 500 I would of said yes. As I already mentioned in my other post, its more so the overall design of the XM18 that is its biggest draw to me. That gerber is no where close.
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I mean, if you want to pay 80% of the price of a mid-tech that is VERY close to a custom for a high volume production company to make your knife, go for it. I was not interested in a half price "strider", mostly because my estimation is that a ZT is not a Strider but is instead a very overbuilt Kershaw. And I would not want to pay even more than that to get a different overbuilt Kershaw.

And I was not aiming that comment at you at all. It was a general comment, and Im sorry if you feel I've called you stingy or w/ever.
 
redisburning said:
I mean, if you want to pay 80% of the price of a mid-tech that is VERY close to a custom for a high volume production company to make your knife, go for it. I was not interested in a half price "strider", mostly because my estimation is that a ZT is not a Strider but is instead a very overbuilt Kershaw. And I would not want to pay even more than that to get a different overbuilt Kershaw.

And I was not aiming that comment at you at all. It was a general comment, and Im sorry if you feel I've called you stingy or w/ever.
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You better believe I'd pay that 80%, but since its a made up price for a wishful thinking collaboration, I can't.

The ZT collaborations roaring success speaks for itself, these are the types of deals in which everyone wins. Look at the upcoming benchmade shane sibert, that's the type of deal I wish Rick would explore with ZT-a full out production of a design that's very hard to get.

You wouldn't pay it, I would, so would many others.

The general response about the heavy duty ZTs are that they easily hold their own against a strider
 
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