Yet another anvil question...

R

ritzblitz

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Dec 31, 2006
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So for any of you who have seen my threads on this anvil that I'm constructing, I have another question...

If I weld a piece of hardened O-1(the face) onto this casting of unknown composition(the base), will it crack while being hammered on?

The face will be of a smaller dimension than that of the base so that it will be fully supported.

Thanks guys.

Alex
 
If I were to attempt this I would assume that the base was cast iron. I would preheat both pieces to at least 450F or higher tack it solidly on alerternating sides using a high nickel content rod ($$) And using the same rod run a bead all the way around then another stringer on base to first stringer and then top plate to original stringer. I would continue to built up stringers until I had a weld of about 2/3 the thickness of the top plate, I would then cover and meet the top with a hard rod that I could square up and smooth to make a corner with the top piece, rooughly grind to shape still hot and fill any dips and then cover with insuilation and allow to slowly cool. You may find the cost of nickel rod prohibitive. Another rod might work, but that would be my choice but, I have access to about any rod I desire.

PS you could turn the anvil over and run a pass or weld a small piece on it in a place that minor damage would not be a problem with a rod like 7018 and after it cooled beat it to see if it popped of. If the piece is cast the weld would probly pop off and show you the grain of the piece. Have you tried a grinder on the piece? If it is cast iron you should get a lot of tiny sparks as compared to a piece of mild steel. A grinder used on known metals and compared to results on an unknown piece should give you an idea as to the probable composition of the unknown.

JUST MY OPINION
 
hmm... I asked a retired engineer who has a holiday home down the road, he suggests heating the cast base with a torch and if it fits, the face in the forge, otherwise have a mate with another torch heat the face plate. take it up to just below the tempering heat of the face, then pour solder over the anvil so it forms a thin film with no exposed base metal and place the face on that so the excess solder is sqeezed out and beads at the edge, once all is cool, run a chisel around the edge to remove all the solder bead and sand clean. Next use a compatible welding rod or MIG wire to weld a bead around all sides of the face to join it to the base.
Because of the bulk and thermal conductivity of the anvils metal mass, the anvil should never get hot enough to melt the solder again. The solder is less to stick it down, than to eliminate all hollows and empty voids between the face and the anvil base.
 
I really like the solder idea, but not saying that the welding idea would not work. I appreciate that post, cause I am also comtemplating building an anvil. A properly prepared joint (no gaps) for soldering will be suprisingly strong. A trip to the local welding supply shop should reveal a wide variety of soldering and silver braze materials, along with instructions on their use. Thanks again, 47 knuckle
 
I went and checked google to find solder melting points. most solutions of tins/silver/copper appear to be around the 375*F mark, so if an steel knife is tempered to 400, a more resilient lower HRC anvil face plate should be a bit higher. sounds like plenty of safety margin there.

Just remember to keep moving the torches and don't let any localised hotspots develop, that may be the hardest part of the job, keeping the heat even.
 
I would think that the solder ideas might work. I think if I tried that I would get both pieces completely flat but, not smooth. Like say 60 grit to give the solder a better purchase. I would also have several pipe clamps ready to clamp the face plate to the base. I have never tried a solder joint of this type. I wonder if the shrink rates of the 3 metals i(cast, O1, solder) nvolved would allow the solder to hold. If I welded after soldering I would wear a good resperator rated for galvinised . The weld will vaporize the solder and that would not be healthy and if the solder contained lead it may even be fatal. BREATHING ANY VAPORIZED HEAVY METALS IS NOT GOOD FOR YOU
 
With pieces that heavy I would think you would have to be very careless to get one spot very much hotter than the rest. I would not heat the bases top directly but on the sides. It might even be that after the solder flowed you could set the well warmed top plate on and continue to heat the base and allow the top plate to reach the solders flow temp via conduction. If you were welding the top on you could get some say 600 degree temp sticks and check the top plate as you went and if the temp got to 600 wait for a till it dropped back to arround 450 to hit it again. I have welded up some larger crome alloy piping for high tempurature pressure vessels and keeping a good sized chunk up around 450 is not easy of course they are hollow but we had the ends plugged with koawool. The weld shrinkage would make the 2 pieces very tight. You have me eyeballing a piece of 4" plate laying out in the yard. LOL. Its about 6'x8' with a couple cuts out of it.
 
Thanks. I think I might try the solder idea.

What about layering 1080 on top then weld the O1 onto that?

Thanks
 
I would only go with 1 piece with a good thickness. More layers would definetly mean more room for problems and I would think more solder would mean more dead blow as it is a soft material.
 
ritzblitz said:
Thanks. I think I might try the solder idea.

What about layering 1080 on top then weld the O1 onto that?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I would go with just a base and a top plate. More layers increase the chance for a failure. I made a RR iron "anvil",boxed in the sides and welded 3 layers of steel on top and used it 'till I found a real anvil. It is heavy and hard faced and got me going but it's not an anvil!!
 
I meant 1018, not 1080.

The reason for the layers is to bridge the gap in composition of the casting compared to the O1. This is what a welding technology major told me. He was in the welding industry for many years, but is not a blacksmith.

Thanks guys.
 
We do something like that all the time with high crome content piping, If a 9 chrome pipe need a support it may be 2 1/2 chrome (percent) then carbon, The idea is to keep from corrupting the parent piping alloy as well as worring about weld strength, and we are not beating on it with a hammer and trying to use all the energy in the blow. With an Anvil you want as much energy as possible from the hammer to be used in the work piece and the rest reflected into rebounding the hammer, not wasted on vibration beween numerous pieces. I know if I built a anvil I would do it by weld built up of hard rod but soldering on a piece of hard plate may work but a stack of plates is a stack of plates and I have to believe a lot of energy is goning to be used up in deflestion.
 
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